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adan · 04/17/08, 01:56 AM

Serious bug with D3 with updated firmware: Nikon D3/D2/D1 Forum: Digital Photography Review

Just a reminder that these things don't only happen to M8s!

(And best wishes for D3 owners that Nikon and the card makers get all over this and solve it faster than Canon did the 1Diii Af issues - I'm sure they will)

OwnedEveryM · 04/17/08, 03:23 AM

Well, what do you know . . . my dealer told me "That's the first one that has ever happened to . . ." when my D3 went bananas--the exact term he used--after just two weeks. Yup, the whole screen started fluttering with alternating colored lines flipping over and over like a partially burned out neon sign.

At least he called his Nikon distributor and they shipped me an exchange right away.

PETER

marknorton · 04/17/08, 09:57 AM

That'll wipe the self-satisfied grin off the face of those thought-they-were-happy D3 owners... LOL.

jaapv · 04/17/08, 11:48 AM

This one is for Canon owners that hammer Leica Quality Control....

1DsIII with tilted sensor - FM Forums

Venkman · 04/17/08, 11:59 AM

Instead of feeling Schadenfreude, we might want to moan about the downward spiral of quality in general. It seems that people just put up with a lot of things, like new TVs burning away after 4 years ("who cares, gives me a reason to buy a new full HD one") or computers being so often sold with problems that people "in the know" tend to skip 1st generations of every product.

Is it just my impression that QA in general got more sloppy?

jaapv · 04/17/08, 12:12 PM

It is not Schadenfreude, it is pointing out it can happen anywhere. In another "Leica quality is going down the drain" thread I listed all the problems the "troublefree" film Leica's gave me over the years.

jdlaing · 04/17/08, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venkman

Is it just my impression that QA in general got more sloppy?

It's not just your impression and you are correct IMHO.

s.m.e.p. · 04/17/08, 01:21 PM

What is one NIKON against thousands of LEICA M8???

howard_cummer · 04/17/08, 01:29 PM

If you read the post comments attached to the first post it is not so clear that the problem is a software problem - could also be a Lexar card problem.

delander · 04/17/08, 02:52 PM

It may well transpire that it is far more than 1 Nikon now it has been recognised.

This news makes me feel better. I know it shouldn't but for so long the M8 has been painted as the Devil's camera among all the saintly Nikons and Canons.

Jeff

delander · 04/17/08, 03:56 PM

I am feeling even better now. Just done quick survey – the 'bricks' are toppling:

the 1DS3 does not know if the horizon is level
the 1D3 still does not AF corrctly
the 5D is full of dust
the D3 FW downgrade worked well
and the litle old D300's chips are failing

Jeff

ddp · 04/17/08, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by delander

It may well transpire that it is far more than 1 Nikon now it has been recognised.

This news makes me feel better. I know it shouldn't but for so long the M8 has been painted as the Devil's camera among all the saintly Nikons and Canons.

Jeff

It's nothing new on the Nikon front. The D1 was plagued by horrible magenta issues when released 8 years ago. Many of the top level pro cameras have bugs that need to be worked out. I've been using pro level Digital Nikons since the D1 was introduced, and as an M user as well - I had no interest in seeing Leica have issues with the M8. I personally don't know any other working pros that view the M8 as the Devil's camera, they don't pay much attention to it I suspect.

I'm not surprised to see issues crop up with any of these beasts - the companies are under strong pressure to bring new products to a seemingly obsessed market, and Leica is no different. There are going to be growing pains no matter what.

Jamie Roberts · 04/17/08, 05:44 PM

...and it's not that QC is going down, necessarily, but that overall complexity is going way up release to release. These things are computers, after all, and computers fail quite frequently.

Riley · 04/17/08, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaapv

This one is for Canon owners that hammer Leica Quality Control....

1DsIII with tilted sensor - FM Forums

i wonder do they lean to the left, or to the right....

adan · 04/17/08, 08:11 PM

Several points:

I wasn't trashing Nikon, just reminding folks that nobody's perfect, even at $5,000 per camera. I've seen plenty of posts on the M8 that insist that for $5,000 the M8 should be perfect - and it is an unrealistic expectation.

(Not to say that the M8 could do better - and the service backup could do a LOT better, despite Dr. Kaufmann's perception that service is not a problem).

Keying off what Jamie and Howard and SMEP said:

1. It is not ONE Nikon - other posters on that thread have replicated the problem with their cameras, once they tried it. And some have not.

2. The card used may be a factor. Using 14-bit mode instead of 12-bit mode also seems to be a factor.

3. Digital cameras are complex, and silicon circuitry is working at the scale where random quantum effects creep in - i.e. the whole thing works on the PROBABILITY of electrons showing up where we expect them to. Sometimes the dice roll the wrong way.

At 9 fps and 14-bit and 12.x Mpixels, the D3 is probably shoveling more electrons per microsecond than any production digital camera so far. Looks like either some CF cards or the buffer (or something in the firmware upgrade) can't always handle it - yet.

Rona|d · 04/17/08, 08:25 PM

Never trust a video camera

lct · 04/17/08, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adan

Another $5,000 camera goes bananas...!

Question is how long does it take at Leica and Nikon to refresh their bananas folks

dcsang · 04/17/08, 09:14 PM

Reading through some of those posts over there (I really despise DP Review but hey.. what can ya do..) I noted that many folks couldn't replicate the problem.

Could just be a singular camera problem rather than a widespread production or model problem.

I just got my M8 on Monday and so far I have yet to see any of the problems that people complained about..... that doesn't mean I'm uncrossing my fingers or not touching wood yet though....

Dave

Riccis · 04/17/08, 11:45 PM

Anyone that owns a D3 may want to hold off on performing the update. According to Rob Galbraith (Rob Galbraith DPI: Nikon D3 v1.10 firmware appears to cause photo corruption problem) he can reproduce the problem almost at will...

Please reference my post just as a warning to hold off on performing the update and let's not turn it into a "Leica is not the only one that sucks" thread

...

Cheers,

Riccis

Jamie Roberts · 04/18/08, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcsang

Reading through some of those posts over there (I really despise DP Review but hey.. what can ya do..) I noted that many folks couldn't replicate the problem.

Could just be a singular camera problem rather than a widespread production or model problem.

I just got my M8 on Monday and so far I have yet to see any of the problems that people complained about..... that doesn't mean I'm uncrossing my fingers or not touching wood yet though....

Dave

Sooo--you actually have bitten the bullet Dave!? Nice! Let us know what you think!

Jamie

04/17/08, 01:56 AM	#1 (permalink)
adan Erfahrener Benutzer Join Date: 03/04/04 Location: Denver Posts: 1,054	Another $5,000 camera goes bananas...! Serious bug with D3 with updated firmware: Nikon D3/D2/D1 Forum: Digital Photography Review Just a reminder that these things don't only happen to M8s! (And best wishes for D3 owners that Nikon and the card makers get all over this and solve it faster than Canon did the 1Diii Af issues - I'm sure they will) Last edited by adan : 04/17/08 at 01:59 AM.

04/17/08, 03:23 AM	#2 (permalink)
OwnedEveryM Neuer Benutzer Join Date: 09/23/07 Location: Tunbridge Posts: 5	Re: Another $5,000 camera goes bananas...! Well, what do you know . . . my dealer told me "That's the first one that has ever happened to . . ." when my D3 went bananas--the exact term he used--after just two weeks. Yup, the whole screen started fluttering with alternating colored lines flipping over and over like a partially burned out neon sign. At least he called his Nikon distributor and they shipped me an exchange right away. PETER

04/17/08, 09:57 AM	#3 (permalink)
marknorton Erfahrener Benutzer Join Date: 11/12/02 Posts: 5,418	Re: Another $5,000 camera goes bananas...! That'll wipe the self-satisfied grin off the face of those thought-they-were-happy D3 owners... LOL. __________________ Mark

04/17/08, 11:48 AM	#4 (permalink)
jaapv Erfahrener Benutzer Join Date: 09/14/04 Location: Hellevoetsluis, Netherlands Posts: 6,667	Re: Another $5,000 camera goes bananas...! This one is for Canon owners that hammer Leica Quality Control.... 1DsIII with tilted sensor - FM Forums __________________ Jaap WWW.JAAPVPHOTOGRAPHY.EU Skype: JAAPVPHOTOGRAPHY

04/17/08, 11:59 AM	#5 (permalink)
Venkman Erfahrener Benutzer Join Date: 10/25/06 Posts: 658	Re: Another $5,000 camera goes bananas...! Instead of feeling Schadenfreude, we might want to moan about the downward spiral of quality in general. It seems that people just put up with a lot of things, like new TVs burning away after 4 years ("who cares, gives me a reason to buy a new full HD one") or computers being so often sold with problems that people "in the know" tend to skip 1st generations of every product. Is it just my impression that QA in general got more sloppy?

04/17/08, 12:12 PM	#6 (permalink)
jaapv Erfahrener Benutzer Join Date: 09/14/04 Location: Hellevoetsluis, Netherlands Posts: 6,667	Re: Another $5,000 camera goes bananas...! It is not Schadenfreude, it is pointing out it can happen anywhere. In another "Leica quality is going down the drain" thread I listed all the problems the "troublefree" film Leica's gave me over the years. __________________ Jaap WWW.JAAPVPHOTOGRAPHY.EU Skype: JAAPVPHOTOGRAPHY

04/17/08, 01:21 PM	#8 (permalink)
s.m.e.p. Erfahrener Benutzer Join Date: 07/07/07 Posts: 2,876	AW: Another $5,000 camera goes bananas...! What is one NIKON against thousands of LEICA M8??? __________________ wartest du noch oder fotografierst du schon? . . LFI Gallery

04/17/08, 01:29 PM	#9 (permalink)
howard_cummer Benutzer Join Date: 01/25/04 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 76	Re: Another $5,000 camera goes bananas...! If you read the post comments attached to the first post it is not so clear that the problem is a software problem - could also be a Lexar card problem.

04/17/08, 02:52 PM	#10 (permalink)
delander Erfahrener Benutzer Join Date: 04/15/07 Posts: 755	Re: Another $5,000 camera goes bananas...! It may well transpire that it is far more than 1 Nikon now it has been recognised. This news makes me feel better. I know it shouldn't but for so long the M8 has been painted as the Devil's camera among all the saintly Nikons and Canons. Jeff

04/17/08, 03:56 PM	#11 (permalink)
delander Erfahrener Benutzer Join Date: 04/15/07 Posts: 755	Re: Another $5,000 camera goes bananas...! I am feeling even better now. Just done quick survey – the 'bricks' are toppling: the 1DS3 does not know if the horizon is level the 1D3 still does not AF corrctly the 5D is full of dust the D3 FW downgrade worked well and the litle old D300's chips are failing Jeff

04/17/08, 05:44 PM	#13 (permalink)
Jamie Roberts Erfahrener Benutzer Join Date: 07/09/06 Location: Cambridge Posts: 2,497	Re: Another $5,000 camera goes bananas...! ...and it's not that QC is going down, necessarily, but that overall complexity is going way up release to release. These things are computers, after all, and computers fail quite frequently. __________________ James H (Jamie) Roberts Site: James Roberts Photography Blog: Photography behind the scenes

04/17/08, 08:11 PM	#15 (permalink)
adan Erfahrener Benutzer Join Date: 03/04/04 Location: Denver Posts: 1,054	Re: Another $5,000 camera goes bananas...! Several points: I wasn't trashing Nikon, just reminding folks that nobody's perfect, even at $5,000 per camera. I've seen plenty of posts on the M8 that insist that for $5,000 the M8 should be perfect - and it is an unrealistic expectation. (Not to say that the M8 could do better - and the service backup could do a LOT better, despite Dr. Kaufmann's perception that service is not a problem). Keying off what Jamie and Howard and SMEP said: 1. It is not ONE Nikon - other posters on that thread have replicated the problem with their cameras, once they tried it. And some have not. 2. The card used may be a factor. Using 14-bit mode instead of 12-bit mode also seems to be a factor. 3. Digital cameras are complex, and silicon circuitry is working at the scale where random quantum effects creep in - i.e. the whole thing works on the PROBABILITY of electrons showing up where we expect them to. Sometimes the dice roll the wrong way. At 9 fps and 14-bit and 12.x Mpixels, the D3 is probably shoveling more electrons per microsecond than any production digital camera so far. Looks like either some CF cards or the buffer (or something in the firmware upgrade) can't always handle it - yet. Last edited by adan : 04/17/08 at 08:17 PM.

04/17/08, 08:25 PM	#16 (permalink)
Rona\|d Moderator Join Date: 01/06/04 Posts: 5,076	AW: Another $5,000 camera goes bananas...! Never trust a video camera

04/17/08, 09:14 PM	#18 (permalink)
dcsang Benutzer Join Date: 10/30/07 Posts: 48	Re: Another $5,000 camera goes bananas...! Reading through some of those posts over there (I really despise DP Review but hey.. what can ya do..) I noted that many folks couldn't replicate the problem. Could just be a singular camera problem rather than a widespread production or model problem. I just got my M8 on Monday and so far I have yet to see any of the problems that people complained about..... that doesn't mean I'm uncrossing my fingers or not touching wood yet though.... Dave

04/17/08, 11:45 PM	#19 (permalink)
Riccis Erfahrener Benutzer Join Date: 04/11/07 Posts: 350	Re: Another $5,000 camera goes bananas...! Anyone that owns a D3 may want to hold off on performing the update. According to Rob Galbraith (Rob Galbraith DPI: Nikon D3 v1.10 firmware appears to cause photo corruption problem) he can reproduce the problem almost at will... Please reference my post just as a warning to hold off on performing the update and let's not turn it into a "Leica is not the only one that sucks" thread ... Cheers, Riccis __________________ Riccis web. www.riccisvalladares.com blog. www.riccisblog.com

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