DMR vs M8 musings

[biglouis]

Since returning to photography as a hobby it has been inevitable that I would soon outgrow my Leica D-LUX 2.

I cannot countenance returning to film photography after being able to shoot, review, revise and re-shoot all in the space of a few minutes. It has to be digital and given the superb results I've seen in this forum, if I am going to buy I might as well sell my soul for a Leica.

I'm trying to evaluate whether to go down the R/DMR route or the M/M8 route.

Looking at budget I estimate it costing me about the same whichever route I go down. One reason is that I have to buy a brand new M8 but going down the R route there is a lot of good second hand equipment from what looks like reputable dealers over the net (e-Bay) and in any case, as I live in London I have choice of a number of good Leica outlets (or even further afield if I use mail order). I estimate I can get a R8 plus a 24mm and 60mm lens for about £1600 or even less if I e-Bay them. Add on a DMR, assuming brand new and I am looking at approximately £4000-4500 overall.

Going down the M8 route it appears from speculation about the price of the M8 plus say a 21MM and 50mm lens (which I would purchase s/h) that again I'm looking at the £4000+ mark, easily.

I'm finding it hard to see beyond some pretty obvious advantages of each route. R/DMR has the possibility of some bargain hunting with respect to camera body and lenses which makes the sticker shock a bit less. But on the other hand a veritable beast of a set-up when compared to the much smaller form factor of the M8.

I suspect the M8 will be in short supply for some time whereas I also anticipate there may be a lot of people giving up their R/DMR equipment to get the latest thing which might also lead to some more bargain hunting.

I do like rangefinder cameras, for some reason I find focussing a lot easier when I compared a M7 to a R8 and R9 (should I have done, or was it a lack of familiarity with the R?). I do have back problems but not serious enough to make me incapable of working with a R/DMR.

You can tell that cost is of importance to me, especially as I'd have to finance this but as they say, you pay for what you get.

My main interest is architecture, landscapes and the odd bit of macro flower shooting. I am not into portraits, street photography, reportage, candid etc.

My head says R/DMR because I think ultimately I would find a SLR a lot easier to work with but my heart say M/M8 because of size and quite frankly looks.

Head or heart? I know everyone must be sick and tired of newbs like me speculating but I figure I might as well take advantage of the collective wisdom of the group.

LouisB

[masjah]

Louis

First of all a disclaimer - I currently work exclusively with film. But it seems to me that the M8/DMR decision is essentially the same decision as the M/R one - that is to say, it depends on the type and style of photography that you do - like everything else, horses for courses.

But from what you say, working on architecture, landscape and macro, I would have thought that it would be difficult to find a clearer case for the R system.

[Philippe D.]

Originally Posted by biglouis

I'm trying to evaluate whether to go down the R/DMR route or the M/M8 route. (...)
My main interest is architecture, landscapes and the odd bit of macro flower shooting. I am not into portraits, street photography, reportage, candid etc.
(...)
My head says R/DMR because I think ultimately I would find a SLR a lot easier to work with but my heart say M/M8 because of size and quite frankly looks.

Why not waiting still a few days?
Then you should know a lot more about the M8 than today. ;-)

If your interest goes mainly to architecture and macro (a.o.), I would say, without any hesitation "R" !
And then, a nice Super-Angulon 28mm on it (or a lot of Photoshop work).

[zanydave]

My first leica was an M4P then M7 however since the arrival of my R8 i just seem to prefer the SLR view, it seems to isolate the image more for me.
I've just spent most of the morning scanning slides & to tell you the truth it was so tedious, Hope to have a DMR by the weekend & i will finally say goodbye to my M7 & lenses.

"Regrets?.. I've had a few... Too few to mention.. I'll do it MY WAY"

Dave.

[bindrar]

The heart always wins ...

I have a R9 & I am now seriously thinking of getting the DMR, but I will keep the M7 for film.

From what I read here, some R8 have problems with firmware upgrades required - so go with the R9 if you decide SLR.

[pascal_meheut]

I have the DMR and clearly, you should go for it for the kind of pictures you are shooting. Yes, it is big and heavy but no really a trouble if you take just a few lenses. It can even save weight: for instance, I found an as good as new 135/2.8 for 500€ and it replaced my 180/2.8: lighter, smaller, cheaper...

However, if you prefer focusing with a rangefinder (same as me), you should be aware that the DMR is quite demanding and that a viewfinder magnifier is a good idea. See the thread about it.

[guy_mancuso]

Well get both . LOL

Actually that is my plan i have 2 DMR's and a whole battery of R glass but i keep getting sucked into this M8. So I will probably sell one DMR/R9 and get a M8 system with 3 lenses to start 21,35 1.4 and the 75 F2. But i am real nervous about this because i lose a true backup but it bugs me to no end having a DMR/R9 just going along for the ride all the time but when you go down at least i have a backup. i simply can't decide what to do. Dumping 10k into another leica system is a little hard to swallow and i just dumped 10k into a complete Mac system Laptop and desktop. So I think I need to just ride this out for awhile but both would be fun to have for sure. If I had to chose one than no question the DMR because i can shoot 15mm to 800mm it's just that simple.

[philipotto]

Guy,
I have a feeling that you will end up keeping both DMRs and will get a second M8 as a backup to your M8.

[pascal_meheut]

Yes, I have the same strange feeling, I wonder why :-)

[guy_mancuso]

I think we are sick folks and in need of Leica therapy. The damn images from the DMR just have me so hooked on Leica.

[stuny]

Big -

I suspect that with what you expect to shoot that the SLR approach would be better for you. However, if you have a friendly Leica dealer who would let you rent or borrow a used M6 and a used R8, each with the same focal length lens, and if you spent a week using them both, perhaps that would help you decide.

Alternatively, you might want to buy a used Digilux 2 and use that for a year or so, by which time the M8 might be in ample supply, and by then there might be some used DMRs available.

BTW: Most people with R8s who bought DMRs had little or no trouble getting them to work together.

[Jamie Roberts]

Originally Posted by guy_mancuso

I think we are sick folks and in need of Leica therapy. The damn images from the DMR just have me so hooked on Leica.

Heh heh.... and I have the perfect excuse for having both; wedding and event photography!

R9/DMR for formals, studio and set up shots; the M8 for unobtrusive photojournalism.

What could be a better reason?

My business partner still shoots Canon, so we have an AF system too, though I hope to really be more invisible with the M8 and a wide-ish lens (though we'll have to see what the crop factor is to know that).

Sigh. There should be a clinic for this. Guy is right!

[guy_mancuso]

I can't get into details but from my sources the M8 is a hot rocket ready to explode on the scene. This is going to be good folks. Okay can i sign up for therapy first. LOL

[MJLogan]

I'd be inclined to agree that R is the way to go, simply because the kind of photos you say you take are better composed with an SLR's viewfinder. But it's occured to me that, if we can get depth-of-field preview on the M8's LCD screen, it might become the perfect hybrid of rangefinder and ultra-high-end digital point & shoot--with certain kinds of photos composed in the rangefinder and others composed on the LCD. That idea probably sends shudders down a few spines here, but it might make the M8 a perfect choice for a much larger (if still a wealthy) audience.

[petermcwerner]

Originally Posted by biglouis

My main interest is architecture, landscapes and the odd bit of macro flower shooting. I am not into portraits, street photography, reportage, candid etc.

I find it difficult to shoot macro flowers with a rangefinder. I did, many years ago, with a IIIb + NOOKY but I would not like to bo back to that experience: backgrounds were not well aligned, DOF impossible to evaluate and in general composition very difficult.

I have ordered an M8 for street photography and when I want to travel light, but I shall keep the DMR for macros, landscape and architecture: macro capability, zoom and shift lenses are features I would not miss.

[graeme_clarke]

Louis - I have an R9/DMR and an M6. All my lenses for both cameras have been bought either as ex demo or s/h. I looked for good quality items from dealers to get a warranty, rather than buying from ebay.

I too like photographing landscapes, architecture, do a lot of macro wildflower work, and more recently, people and events. The R system is the one that gets the use. It did for a couple of years before I got a DMR when I used mainly velvia. I used b/w film in the M, including a passing phase with I/red.

Now I find I'm using the DMR 99% of the time - for all aspects you mention, and including street photography. I've not found the size of the R/DMR inhibiting, but its weight gets a bit wearing after a time. I use a wide optech strap and find the wrist strap a boon. To save weight I now have to decide what I'm going to do that session and just take the appropriate lenses. Most of the time its the 28-90. For serious macro work I find the 100mm superb. I occasionally use the elpro but more often than not don't need 1:1 reproduction, especially with the DMR and its smaller "frame" size. The almost instant review/revise and see what you get that digital brings is beguiling in comparison to using film!

I have a dual focus 50mm M f2 'cron - but find its much more limiting for close-up work than the R100. I can count on one hand the number of successful shots taken using the close focus facility with the M lens. Focussing is much easier with the R, especially when using the angle finder when you're down on your knees!

All in all then, I agree with many others - for the work you want to do, the R system will cover all eventualities. Good luck with your choice.

Best wishes,

Graeme

[umb]

>> I'm trying to evaluate whether to go down the R/DMR route or the M/M8 route.

Since you dont have Leica R or M lenses both routes are dead wrong, especially if cost matters. Rather choose one of the two brands professional photographers have chosen for good reasons for decades.

[pascal_meheut]

Originally Posted by umb

>> Rather choose one of the two brands professional photographers have chosen for good reasons for decades.

You mean Hasselblad and Mamiya ? Or Sinar and Arca-Swiss ? Or Rollei and Pentax ?

[dhsimmonds]

[quote=graeme_clarke]
Now I find I'm using the DMR 99% of the time - for all aspects you mention, and including street photography. I've not found the size of the R/DMR inhibiting, but its weight gets a bit wearing after a time. [quote=graeme_clarke]


I agree, whilst the DMR/R9 combo is obviously more of a lump than a rangefinder, it is certainly no more of a lump than other high end DSLR's and in fact rather smaller than some! I also find the wrist strap invaluable and very comfortable when using the DMR in either landscape or portait compositions where the three alternative shuter releases really come in useful for the latter. However I do still prefer to use the totally silent shutter of my LC1 (D2) for street photography even though the depth of tone is nothing like that obtainable with the DMR.

I must persevere with the DMR for street photography though, because the viewfinder is ideal, showing enough around the "frame" to make it seem like a rangefinder in use.

Whatever your decision..........make it a Leica. You won't regret it.

Cheers, Dave

[albertwang]

Please no Cannon evil recommendations... that route has been the gate to all things lost in Dante's Inferno.