Small non-Leica APS for M lenses?

[lct]

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What is the best small APS camera for M lenses?

No Leica please as the T is not for me i'm afraid and i want a smaller body than my Ms.

By best i mean fast, quiete with the best IQ.

The lenses i'm planning to use are Skopar 21/4, Elmarit-M 28/2.8 asph, Summarit-M 35/2.5 and Summarit-M 50/2.5,

Thanks for advice

[kdriceman]

What is the best small APS camera for M lenses?

No Leica please as the T is not for me i'm afraid and i want a smaller body than my Ms.

By best i mean fast, quiete with the best IQ.

The lenses i'm planning to use are Skopar 21/4, Elmarit-M 28/2.8 asph, Summarit-M 35/2.5 and Summarit-M 50/2.5,

Thanks for advice

 

 

LCT, I have used several, including the Fuji XPro 1, Fuji XT1, the Nex 7, the Nex 6 and the Ricoh GXR w/A12 Mount. I would say the 'best' of these in terms of most compatible and best image quality throughout my lens lineup (21SE, 35Chron, 50Lux, 90 Summarit) was the Ricoh. Sadly they don't make it anymore, but it can be obtained on eBay. Next, for me is the Nex 6, which I have and use frequently. It is a bit smaller than the Ricoh and Fuji's and is, IMO, more usable and highly reliable. It puts out very nice files that are easy to work with and works well with all my lenses, albeit will leave a slight red edge (fixable in post) when using the 21. The Fuji's are nice, well built cameras and are very usable, especially the XT1. Nice color rendition, but I could never get up the learning curve with the XTrans files.

 

 

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[gyoung]

I got a nex 6 a few weeks ago after much procrastination. So far it works well with my m lenses, 21/2.8 asph, 35/2 asph and 50 Summilux I have tried so far. Also voigtlander 15/4.5 and especially the 28/1.9 which is very good.

Gerry

 

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[jankap]

My Ricoh is doing very well with: 12mm/5.6, Lux35, Canon 135mm, R 180mm and R 500mm mirror.

The electronic shutter works very good, not under fluorescent lights.

 

Against the Ricoh speaks the very deep throat (M, LTM): no experiments with Metabones, no helicoid.

Further no autofocus, no anti dust measures, no image stabilization.

 

I use the Hoodman lens on the LCD, this makes the camera big, because I didn´t like the EVF. But working with the LCD/Hoodman is very nice.

I have never used the built in flash?! The Lux (with 1.4) and the VC12mm (at 1/25sec.) are very flexible.

Jan

[xalo]

lct, some weeks ago I thought about the same thing and found an excellent offer for the Eos M (less than 2,5% the price of a new M...) I have been using it now since about two weeks. In fact, I quite like the camera, the shutter sound, even the handling, with the exception of some quirks (like activating the touchscreen zoom only in one corner).

 

I tried the CV 21/4, 25/4, 28/1,9, M-Rokkor 40, various R and M lenses, Canon FD, Oly OM and Canon EF. I did no systematic tests, but a couple of trials in situations I know.

 

Conclusion so far: although quite sharp, forget the CV 21 & 25: strong vignetting with magenta color drift (did not try to salvage this in post; some —not me— could also say, it lends a 'look', in b&w especially). All longer M lenses seem to render excellently, with the CV 28/1,9 showing a hint of drift. Of course, wide SLR lenses work better, e.g. the Elmarit 19mm II is superb — but big compared to the camera.

 

Beware of camera shake, the Eos M can be a bit of a piece of soap. For stills and landscapes on a tripod, it's superb. Size of the lens doesn't matter then and the Canon EF (or FD) adapter makes it very versatile. Recently a thread here in the Forum linked to a very interesting article on Luminous Landscape. Ivan Muller's blog took another angle. I found both pieces useful, although I had already ordered the camera when I found them.

 

Alexander

 

P.S.: Yes, you can go wide and small with the Eos M, Canon's 22mm ƒ2 seems actually to be a gem and/or is subtantially supported by the electronics. I also found one for very little cash. Now I wished I'd find where the AF can be switched off...

Edited April 28, 2014 by xalo

[lct]

Thank you folks

Do you know how long roughly can freezing take with Ricoh M mount, Nex-6 and Fuji X-E1 (or E2) after each shot?

Xalo: Yes i was aware of the red edge problems with the EOS M thank you but i need an EVF anyway.

Edited April 28, 2014 by lct

[jankap]

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The type of the used memory card plays a large role.

During the freezing the camera writes the photo to the card. With better cards you have a better response time. The difficulty is which card your camera still takes.

I use the Sandisk 30 MB/s. But I also choose to show the taken picture for a second.

Technics is moving fast, also in respect of memory cards.

My Sigma DP1 was really slow, but with better cards its reaction was better.

Jan

[lct]

I can get the fastest cards (95 and 260 MB/s) but i undestand that freezing does not depend only on that. My DSLRs don't freeze at all for instance, even with slow cards. With the T and 95 MB/s cards, the freezing time would be around 0.5 second if i remember well. How longer or shorter with Ricoh, Sony and Fuji competitors?

[gyoung]

Not really tried that with the nex 6 yet, I have the image review set for the minimum anywayj and am usually happy with that. Its 2 secs I think from memory, I haven't got it with me away from home.

I have also tried voigtlander 21/4 and 35/2.5 and these are good too, but as with film they are not as good as my leica 21 and 35.

I usualy use Nikon D7000 for anything that requires quick response etc (such as the grandchildren :-) The af on these cameras is not usually as good as a dslr and the zoom which came with the nex 6 is poor compared to what I have for the Nikon

 

Gerry

 

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[kdriceman]

Thank you folks

Do you know how long roughly can freezing take with Ricoh M mount, Nex-6 and Fuji X-E1 (or E2) after each shot?

Xalo: Yes i was aware of the red edge problems with the EOS M thank you but i need an EVF anyway.

 

 

I can't remember this with the Fuji's and Ricoh that I have used. With the Nex 6, it depends on he card, file type and the drive setting. At 10fps (using Sandisk Extreme Class 10 Cards and shooting RAW) it will freeze after about 15 frames and takes probably 7-8 seconds to clear . I don't find much need to shoot at 10fps with this camera. At the slower continuous frame rate, 3fps, I cannot remember it ever freezing. I'll go home later today and run a quick test and let you know.

 

 

 

 

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[jankap]

I can get the fastest cards (95 and 260 MB/s) but i undestand that freezing does not depend only on that. My DSLRs don't freeze at all for instance, even with slow cards. With the T and 95 MB/s cards, the freezing time would be around 0.5 second if i remember well. How longer or shorter with Ricoh, Sony and Fuji competitors?

 

That is correct. In these (small/cheap) cameras there are processors, that possibly are slower than those of DSLRs. One seldom finds a clock frequency mentioned. Exotic processor names yes.

 

I haven´t found a limit for memory cards for the Ricoh GXR. About the capacity the data is present.

In theory the technical data should inform the user about the limitations of a product.

 

I´ll buy (and try) a faster memory card. I cannot help directly, sorry.

Jan

[kdriceman]

On my Nex 6, using continuous mode (nominally 3fps), RAW, Sandisk Ultra Class 10 card, I just shot 50 consecutive and it was me that stopped. After 25 the frame rate dropped to, I would say 2fps and after 35 it dropped to more like one fps. But, I have no doubt that in continuous mode, with a fast card and even shooting RAW files, it will go indefinitely.

[lct]

OK thanks, much appreciated, and in single frame mode how long does the freezing last roughly? 2 seconds with the Ricoh really?

[jankap]

In single picture mode about 1 second darkness (without replay) with an Extreme 30MB/s. card.

I could not get an 95 MB/s one yet.

 

As I use the replay mode at 1 second I had not noticed the delay until your question.

Jan

[jmahto]

I use NEX-6 with CV 15, 50lux (both above f8) and 90 elmarit-m (all f stops). So far so good. Somehow I am not happy with 28cron-asph.

 

BTW, my major use of NEX-6 is 90 elmarit-m, 80-200 f4 vario R and 400 telyt 6.8. I have no problem focusing with these and I like the results.

 

Some samples are in my flickr gallery album. If you want to check out the results.

Edited May 4, 2014 by jmahto

[Jaybob]

Seriously, LCT? How long have you been coming here?

 

NEX-6 is the answer. I always use it on single frame, exclusively with 35, 50 and 90 M glass, and I have never once experienced any kind of "freezing". I shoot ARW files, change my peaking color and intensity to suit the situation, and use the FN button to access WB, ISO, and metering pattern. I use the wheel on the back for shutter speed, and the bottom button for focus zoom. That's only six changeable interactions.

 

I've used the NEX-5 Hoodman'ed with excellent, although bulky, results.

 

You can get a body now for less than $500, a decent adapter can run anywhere from 50 to 250. The best adapter is worth every dime.

 

I'm not a fan of the mini DSLR form factor, but if they made the new A7s shaped like a NEX, I would buy that immediately.

 

just my opinion, I think we're going to find the non aluminum parts of the T are Sony, anyway. The petal hoods on the lenses and the 100 200 400 800 ISO pattern seem very nexy to me.

 

Jay

[lct]

Finally went for the little Fuji E-X2 after hesitating to order the Ricoh M mount. Both have sans AA filter sensors, the Ricoh is better optimized for M lenses but i prefer the built-il EVF of the Fuji and i'm impressed by the support it gives to M lenses (Fujifilm M Mount Adapter) contrary to the latest model of my otherwise favorite camera brand . Price was not a real concern but paying less than 1,000 EUR for the body, its EVF, one M mount adapter and three batteries made me smile a bit by comparison. Remains to see if the results will meet my Leica geek's expectations... Many thanks for your help anyway .

[AlanG]

I think a lot of people have steered you to the Nex 6. I have one and like it a lot. I bought it because with the kit lens it is very compact and fairly versatile.

 

You can buy a Nex 6 with the 16-50 lens for $524 which is about 1/2 of what I paid for it when it came out. It is being replaced by the A6000 which has some improvements but a lower res EVF. (I don't know how well its EVF works.) A T with kit lens and EVF is larger and costs about $4200. The Nex 6 provides more features of course.

 

Amazon.com : Sony NEX-6L/B 16.1 MP Compact Interchangeable Lens Digital Camera with 16-50mm Power Zoom Lens and 3-Inch LED (Black) : Compact System Digital Cameras : Camera & Photo

 

The 16-50 is pretty compact as it retracts. You might find you use this more than your M lenses. If you correct it in software such as DXO, it is pretty good.

Edited May 5, 2014 by AlanG

[lct]

Its AA filter and lack of support for M lenses have played against it i'm afraid but i remain interested in what Sony could bring in this respect.

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[jmahto]

I think a lot of people have steered you to the Nex 6. I have one and like it a lot. I bought it because with the kit lens it is very compact and fairly versatile.

 

You can buy a Nex 6 with the 16-50 lens for $524 which is about 1/2 of what I paid for it when it came out. It is being replaced by the A6000 which has some improvements but a lower res EVF. (I don't know how well its EVF works.) A T with kit lens and EVF is larger and costs about $4200. The Nex 6 provides more features of course.

 

Amazon.com : Sony NEX-6L/B 16.1 MP Compact Interchangeable Lens Digital Camera with 16-50mm Power Zoom Lens and 3-Inch LED (Black) : Compact System Digital Cameras : Camera & Photo

 

The 16-50 is pretty compact as it retracts. You might find you use this more than your M lenses. If you correct it in software such as DXO, it is pretty good.

 

I use 16-50 compact zoom (it is really compact and total camera+lens weight is only 1 lb) only when I don't care about sides/corners sharpness. Only for casual people shooting and non landscape/architecture. If I need better across the frame quality then I use M9. NEX-6 then mainly for the long lenses and it works beautifully for them.

 

BTW, I noticed internal reflection (from sensor glass) while shooting with sun in the frame using CV 15. The similar ones that gets reported in A7/A7r. Therefore I am getting tempted towards Leica T as its replacement.