Nikon's move

[stnami]

see Digital Camera Reviews and News: Digital Photography Review: Forums, Glossary, FAQ..........D3........D300

[john_f]

I was just browsing dpreview when I saw your post. The new D3 is simply out of this world! And all this for US $5000 !!

Leica will have to do to a lot of work if they want their next R10 to be taken seriously - even if they don't want to directly compete with Nikon or Canon.

[ho_co]

John--
You mean like pricing the R10 at $10,000?

[cmogi10]

hm...if that's as fast as they say it's going to be...

Wow.

[stnami]

.... maybe at that price the R10 doesn't have to be as good ..........the well heeled are probably more forgiving than the working photographer............grin

[carstenw]

Very interesting! It looks superficially like Nikon has out-manoevred Canon for this generation too. The D3 will steal the 1D3's fire, and the D300 will out-ace the 40D. Canon is too busy protecting the 5D to give the 40D 12MP, and so Nikon runs off with the win. It also sounds superficially like Nikon finally has a proper answer to Canon's high ISO performance. I will be watching the reviews very carefully to see how this one plays out. While the 1Ds3 is still untouched, I would bet that the 1D-series has always been a much higher seller. I have seen just one 1Ds2 in the flesh, but numerous 1D2/1D2Ns.

The new super-high resolution screen is interesting. I wonder how the colour fidelity will be, and how good it will be in bright light.

On the downside, I find the D300's low ISO of 200 disappointing. I have already felt constrained by the ISO 160 of the M8 on occasion.

[martinb]

Originally Posted by carstenw

On the downside, I find the D300's low ISO of 200 disappointing. I have already felt constrained by the ISO 160 of the M8 on occasion.

Carsten,
ISO 160 on M8 is the same as ISO 200 on D300.

[rosuna]

The new D3 camera is impressive, really impressive. Nikon was out of the high-end of the market, and they have reentered.

Leica should consider a partner like Panasonic for the development of the future R10 (electronic components, sensor, etc.).

[carstenw]

Hell, Leica should consider a partner like Nikon! If they could each take their own part of the market, Nikon is a much more suitable partner than Panasonic or Canon, since the latter two are huge electronics companies, and Nikon and Leica are much more focused on optics.

[bill]

Originally Posted by carstenw

Hell, Leica should consider a partner like Nikon! If they could each take their own part of the market, Nikon is a much more suitable partner than Panasonic or Canon, since the latter two are huge electronics companies, and Nikon and Leica are much more focused on optics.

That's exactly why Nikon would NOT be a good partner. Partners should be complementary not heavily overlapping. Two optics companies bad, optics + electronics good.

Regards,

Bill

[guywalder]

Originally Posted by carstenw

On the downside, I find the D300's low ISO of 200 disappointing. I have already felt constrained by the ISO 160 of the M8 on occasion.

Carsten,
there is a 'low' setting of 100 ISO as well, the only thing that is really missing is the self cleaning sensor that is in the D300. Presumably they ran out of space due to the bigger sensor?
Guy

[earleygallery]

Intersting that having originally opted for a crop sensor that Nikon have now gone full frame, despite the fact that they have their digital range of lenses for the smaller sensor cameras etc etc.

Canon were clearly taking the lead - I guess people just prefer what they know - understanding the format, the lens focal lengths of 35mm.

It does look impressive though, and very big too!

The R10 or whatever will be a very different camera I'm sure. And presumably a film and digital version (or will the R9 remain as the film option).

[stnami]

There is no R10 out in the market, that's where Canon and Nikon differ......... their's is a reality not a if/but/when phantom

[guywalder]

Originally Posted by earleygallery

Intersting that having originally opted for a crop sensor that Nikon have now gone full frame, despite the fact that they have their digital range of lenses for the smaller sensor cameras etc etc.

Canon were clearly taking the lead - I guess people just prefer what they know - understanding the format, the lens focal lengths of 35mm.

It does look impressive though, and very big too!

The R10 or whatever will be a very different camera I'm sure. And presumably a film and digital version (or will the R9 remain as the film option).

they havnt gone full frame, they have just added a full frame to the line up, one which is also compatible with the DX lens line incidentally, although much of that is targetted at a different market.
The vast majority of Canon's sales are also crop format sensors, for which they also sell specific lenses, thats what the majority of customers want!

[ddp]

Originally Posted by guywalder

The vast majority of Canon's sales are also crop format sensors, for which they also sell specific lenses, thats what the majority of customers want!

More likely what they can afford...

[guywalder]

Originally Posted by ddp

More likely what they can afford...

yes, and?
It doesnt make much sense to make super dooper product if your customers cant afford it. Given that the D200 has consistently outsold the 5D it seems that full frame is nice to have, but only if it doesnt cost much more.....

[reven]

All are talking that Nikon made a huge move against Canon. I don't think so. Yes, the D3 and D300 is nice BUT, the D3 is more expensive than the 1DMk3 AND Canon will bring with 100% a new 1DMk3N or what ever it was called to the olympics in 2008.

The D300 is nice, but I think the 40D is better placed it is still over 600EUR cheaper. I'm also sure that there will be a 5D replacement near the 2000EUR which runs against the D300.

Now The thing is I still really would like to see a R10 soon. Before I decide whether I will get the 1DsMk3, because after that the train is gone for leica.

[billh]

I switched from Nikon Fs to the Canon 1Ds, 1D2 and 1Ds2. I have a 1Ds3 on order (but after the 1D3 debacle I’ll wait to see what happens when people begin using them before I take delivery), but held off on the 1D3 because of the focusing issues. The best AF camera I’ve ever used was the Nikon f5, and I’ve saved my Nikon lenses - Much of the time an M8 or manual focus is fine, but when I need the predictive AF and high speed motor, I would love to have the focus consistency of my old Nikons. In a sequence like this,



every image was tack sharp and the plane of focus was where it should be, on the face, not the ears or further behind.

The Canon 1D2 would do this with the 300 f2.8IS lens,



but I have to use a single AF point and somehow manage to keep it plastered on the face - even then the percentage of successful shots is quite low. More often than not I find myself choosing the M8 over the 1Ds2, but for these action photos you really need something with superb AF (or else prefocus and use a high speed MD and hope you manage to hit the exact fraction of a second when the face is where you have focused).

[ddp]

Originally Posted by guywalder

yes, and?
It doesnt make much sense to make super dooper product if your customers cant afford it. Given that the D200 has consistently outsold the 5D it seems that full frame is nice to have, but only if it doesnt cost much more.....

My point is simply this - the cheaper cameras(non -full frame) are what they sell in volume. The average consumer is more concerned about keeping costs down, simplicity and good looking pictures. Nikon & Canon have their halo cameras to serve the professional market and the well heeled amateur. The R&D associated with the high end products eventually trickles down to the more affordable level. Look at the sales of the Nikon D40 and the 20D, 30D.

[tom0511]

Originally Posted by stnami

There is no R10 out in the market, that's where Canon and Nikon differ......... their's is a reality not a if/but/when phantom

There are allways some DMR out there which deliever damn good images.