Digital M with Tri-Elmar?

[john_r_smith]

Folks

I was thinking about the forthcoming Digital M, and supposing that one had the financial means (which I don’t, but never mind) but had no Leica lenses of any sort, what would be the best solution for a replacement for the Digilux 2 – to give the same versatility, but better quality as a long-term investment? My first thoughts were for the Digital M body, with the Tri-Elmar lens. I assume this would cost about £5,000 in UK money (ouch!), but allowing for the crop factor would give you 35mm/50mm/70mm equivalents, which, although short of the Digilux 2 at both ends, is still a nice range. Has anyone here got experience with the Tri-Elmar, and is it a good piece of kit?

John

[brucek]

John:

I use a Tri-Elmar on my R-D1 and for me it works beautifully! Although it isn't a fast lens I find that not to be a problem for me with the excellent high ISO characteristics of the body.

If you don't already know about it, Sean Reid has a (pay) web site (www.reidreviews.com) where he posts his reviews, and one of the ones up there is on a Tri-Elmar.

Bruce

[marknorton]

You are correct that the Tri-Elmar will cover most of the range of the D2 lens and it's a well regarded lens, though a full 2 stops slower than the D2 lens. It's a good lens for travelling and the second incarnation is a mechanical improvement from the first version of the lens (slimmer, better click stops of the focussing ring).

Optically, the lens is well regarded and is recommended if you can live with the f4. That limits the depth of field control you can achieve and you'll be relying on good noise performance for equivalent exposure, ISO 400 on the M8 compared to ISO 100 on the D2. The Tri-Elmar is at its best at 50mm with some distortion at 28mm. Going wider is expensive - €3000 for an Elmarit 21mm and longer needs a Summicron 75mm and the package of the three lenses would weigh in at a hefty €11800 or so.

Overall though, I think the Tri-Elmar choice of focal lengths is better suited to the M8 with the new "normal" being 35mm, so you have a lens which gives you "normal", slightly wide and slightly long and it's a natural partner for the M8, providing they've got that noise under control.

[stunsworth]

Also bear in mind that the lens is less flare resistant than many of the primes. Also it's a very complex design from a mechanical point of view - mine has been back to Solms 4 times with the same problem - loose aperture ring.

Personally I'd go for a 28mm Summicron to use with the digital M, but that is just my opinion.

[calshot]

John
I would have thought a very good replacement would be the Digital M plus a new version of the lens we already have on our LC1. Would such a thing be possible or likely.The next replacement the L1 seems to be going backwards to me. We already have a good lens even if we cant remove it.
Robin

[john_r_smith]

Robin

as I understand it, it is not possible to fit a zoom lens to a Leica rangefinder camera. I thought about the Tri-Elmar as a way of getting around this problem. I agree with you, I am perfectly satisfied with the Vario-Summicron on the D2/LC1, and have absolutely no wish to change or upgrade it. This lens is wonderful, what a pity we can't simply transfer it to a new (10MP) body (In fact I'll be honest with you blokes, and admit that the Vario-Summicron is porbably the best lens I have ever used, which is a bitter pill for me to swallow, being a confirmed Zeiss man).

John

[steve_l]

I just got a Tri-Elmar for my R-D1, and it is great - high ISO makes f4 not so bad. I used it to do a wedding (www.stevelipsey.com, Vanessa and Robert) and it made it possible to shoot with one body (I'm not getting a second R-D1, I'm waiting for the Leica, and I've sold all my pro Canon gear already). I didn't see much distortion at 28 or lack of contrast - sure, it isn't a new asph prime, but it does the job very well. As Sean points out in his review, the technical lens test doesn't really capture how well this lens performs in the real world.

I used the Tri at the wedding for the ceremony and the daylight part of the reception....I switched to a Leica 21 when it got dark, for the extra speed and because, at the reception, I could move around to frame - at the ceremony I needed the flexibility in focal length.

By the way, I have the old style Tri-Elmar, just bought used for *many* hundreds less than a new style, and my click stops are very clear, and I like not having to carry and fit a separate lens shade (the old style Tri has the shade built in, that is why it is a bit larger), this way it is always ready to go in my bag...for the price of a used Tri, it is worth having one available - and if you end up not using it, you can sell for about what you paid.

[mhoutman]

Originally Posted by john_r_smith

Folks

I was thinking about the forthcoming Digital M, and supposing that one had the financial means (which I don’t, but never mind) but had no Leica lenses of any sort, what would be the best solution for a replacement for the Digilux 2 – to give the same versatility, but better quality as a long-term investment?

John

as a replacement for the Digilux 2, don't only opt for the expensive top notch digital M, but also for the Digilux 2 successor. I think at Photokina we have much more info.

[ho_co]

Originally Posted by john_r_smith

... a bitter pill for me to swallow, being a confirmed Zeiss man.

John

John, are you C of E? I didn't think they were still confirming Zeiss advocates... <g>

--HC

[marknorton]

Originally Posted by mhoutman

as a replacement for the Digilux 2, don't only opt for the expensive top notch digital M, but also for the Digilux 2 successor. I think at Photokina we have much more info.

I agree, with Photokina only coming every couple of years, Leica will have to use it to set out their stall for the medium term. So we'll expect to see much more than the M8, new lenses, new mid-range digital offerings, new sport-optics. I am predicting nothing in the way of new slide projectors though, nor do I think Leica will be re-entering the enlarger market.

[wda]

Count me among the satisfied users of the Tri-Elmar lens. It is most suitable for travel photography. I have rarely found it too slow but carry a fast prime for when available light lowers in intensity. I have only used it on my M6 camera.

David

[leicapfile]

I can only echo the above comments. It's greatest asset to me is as a "walk around lens".

While I'm certainly far from being a Lens Tester, I suspect that the modern ASPH primes surpass it in all that "chart stuff" that many people hang their hat on. I'd also wager that, other than speed, the older M lenses aren't quite up to the performance of the "TRI".

I have an M2,3, and 7, the latter an 0.85, so I have to use an external finder for the 28mm.

Neither the finder or the slower speed have proven a hinderence so far.

I sprang for a used v1, in chrome, for which I probably paid a couple of hundred dollar premium. Suspect the chrome finish may make my heirs happy when the time comes to barbarcue me. Till then I give it "Three Thumbs Up"

Jerry

[marknorton]

The chrome V1 is quite rare, I missed on one ebay a few weeks back. Seems to be the number of chrome lenses is getting less with a few being discontinued by Leica.

[leicapfile]

Mark,

Mark,

About 750 of the chrome v1s made if you believe the records Leica posts in thier site (Missing Leicas).

Only 50 of the chrome engraved for the British Leica Historical Society in one of their "collector" runs.

Best,

Jerry

[ptomsu]

Interesting if this will be a good combination

[ed_oneal]

Can anyone guess how will the M8 handle the viewfinder coupling with the Tri-Elmar?

[marknorton]

The Tri-Elmar already has a clever arrangement for adjusting the frame lines as you change the focal length from 28 - 35 - 50 and I expect the M8 to work in the same way. As ragrds the 6 bit coding, I think the Tri-Elmar will have its own code and the camera will look at the setting of the finder lever to determine what image processing, based on selected focal length, is required.

[albertknappmd]

the concept of the tri-Elmar and M8 is very appealing but given the former's slow speed, the key will be whether the new CCD will have a low noise level when used at ISO 400 or 800. If this is so, tehn the tri-Elmar-M8 combo becomes very interesting indeed...
Let's see the M8's specs first before dreaming however...

[flatfour]

The interesting point about the M8 from the information which has appeared on various sites is that Leica seem to be building an upgradeable camera. This would obviate the apalling regularity wth which digital cameras are upgraded in such a way that nothing is interchangeable. Thus Leica may gradually introduce high quality lenses which are compatible with the M8 with the latest sensor, the latest software,and the latest viewfinder. This will give the camera far longer life than the current crop of Canons and Nikons.

[leicapfile]

IF they have a continually upgradeable M8 (and it is a good product to begin with), I can only think it would do wonders for down the road sales.

I would think a premium, upgradable, Leica RF digital, would build the base in terms of brand loyalty. At 5K or so bucks per pop it's hardly a "throw away, buy the lastest" camera for all but a few of us, and I ain't one of the few.

Seriously though, while I can imagine firmware upgrades and the like, bigger (megapixals, crop factor), are probably beyond reach. After all, has any manufacturer done it before?

Best,

Jerry