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A digital M6


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I would like to start a little discussion here about something that has been on my mind for a long time.

 

I used the M8 for 5 years and now i switched to the M240. Beside that i still own but rarely use an M6TTL.

 

Since the digital M's get thinker an heavier with ever new release, they move more and more away from the original M6 size and weight. The M6 is in my opinion the slickest camera ever build. I still prefer the way i work with my M6 over every digital camera.

 

So her's the idea:

A new M that is in every aspect like the M6 was, but has a sensor instead of film.

And i mean i EVERY aspect! Exact same size of the body, NO monitor, VERY limited control buttons. Only ISO and RAW or JPG can be chosen.

 

So one would have the exact same shooting experience like back in the days on film, without the hassle of developing and scanning.

 

It would also be the absolute best street and reportage camera and my preferred choice for travel and work in risky places.

 

In the film days, there where tons of very unique cameras out there for every possible use. Nowadays, all the cameras are kind of the same and i'm 100% sure that there's a place in the market for such a unique digital camera, specially when it comes from Leica! Think about the media-hype. First digital camera without a monitor :-)

 

Would you buy such a camera?

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Would you buy such a camera?

No. And while you are not the first to suggest such a design, the number of prospective buyers would be far too small even by Leica’s standards.

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...

 

Would you like a kind of 'Kodak-Leica' in the way of, you press the button, they will do the rest?

Then film will meet your criteria as storage material probably better than it could do any chip.

Let process your films to paper images, enjoy beautifully slides or let the photos saved on a photo CD-Rom if they are to be processed digitally.

 

Or you can turn off at the digital Leica all added features to the analog Leica properties, which is possible with the exception of the shutter motor.

 

IMHO the critical view on the monitor of a digital Leica immediately after photographing or promptly on the same evening improves the handling even with analog Leica equipment.

Especially fortunately the lenses used remain the same.:)

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Hello,

 

I would definitely like to have one. I never understood why they replaced the shutter cocking mechanism with that noisy motor in the M8.

If I was to design such a camera it'd be like that:

 

- RAW only (so no white balance is necessary), they could skip the whole image processing engine and rather provide good color profiles...

- ISO wheel on the back like the M6

- shutter cocking manually with the lever (no need for thumbs-up) + discreet

- obviously good image sensor and really good battery, so you don't have to change it all the time...

 

It'd need much less power, so the battery would last much longer.

 

People'd be like "oh, a film camera, how sweet", there'd be no temptation to check images all the time, the camera could be lighter, thinner and of course more reliable.

 

Still I think it's not going to happen and if it was it'd be really expensive, following the idea of "the less you get, the more you pay" :)

 

But I don't need more (On the M8 there isn't even a need for ISO, as higher ISOs do not improve the images over pushing base ISO...)

 

Greetings,

Arvid

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No.

And one of the BEST things about the M-240 for client work is that the preview isn't an embarrassment as it was with the M8/M9. In some situations it's so useful to be able give a model or the client immediate feedback on the progress of a shoot - and being able to check the histogram is essential for a lot of my own practice. Agreed, when photographing in difficult situations the preview could be a distraction - but here the solution is simple. Turn it off :)

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If I had too much money and if the camera did something else better than my M, I might consider buying one.

I must admit that I don't use the display all too often. Most times when I'm out with the camera, I carry a phone with a very capable display as well, so I think I could live with using the phone instead of a built-in display.

I also greatly loved the manual shutter cocking of the R-D1, but I can't say that I miss it that much.

There are two misconception in the premises of this thread:

It's not true that every digital M is thicker than the one before. The M is not thicker than the M9.

If you want the experience to be similar to that of the M6, you have to put into the M a smaller battery which you then have to change every 36 (or even 24) shots, and not a larger one. That would, of course, help reducing the M's weight. That would make it quite obvious that the ISO selector should be put under the base cover, to be set only after 24 or 36 shot, at the same time you change the battery.
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This idea has been raised many times before.

 

You need to accept that a digital camera is basically a computer to which you can attach a lens. Would you buy a laptop that didn't have a screen?

 

 

Analogies are almost always cause for careful scrutiny

 

In the analogue age, a film camera was basically a car to which you could attach a lens. Would you buy a car without wheels?

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- obviously good image sensor and really good battery, so you don't have to change it all the time...

The M (Typ 240) has a “really good” (read: higher capacity) battery. That’s the main factor contributing to its increased weight, compared to the M9.

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Analogies are almost always cause for careful scrutiny

 

In the analogue age, a film camera was basically a car to which you could attach a lens. Would you buy a car without wheels?

 

Sorry I don't understand you. A digital camera IS a computer. To make full use of the features it can offer one really does need a display of some sort.

 

The OP is proposing a car without an engine to be drawn by horses!

 

OK you could handicap the camera by fitting just an ISO dial (which won't be a mechanical dial but rather an electronic switch) and having to shoot RAW at all times. But we could also revert to having a single line LED display on our PC's.

 

Sorry but nice in theory though the idea of a 'simple' digital camera is, it simply doesn't make practical sense.

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I think the idea was not to replace the M240 with such a camera... It'd be just nice to have the choice. Like with M9 and MM. Or with M7 and MP.

For those who just want to take pictures like they did with film... I mean, film isn't getting cheaper and easier to get hold of, processing takes, you have to scan and whatnot...

So the idea would be to take the camera, just take pictures (without fiddling with the damn thing all the time, just set exposure time, aperture and focus) and look at them in the evening.

I'd really like that if it's not done like the Df. The idea is not to reproduce the bad stuff and disadvantages from film days. Neither should it be a half-ass approach with live-view but video not (because that's so not retro).

No it should be quite edgy, like the MM. That would set it apart from all the cameras available. I mean what sets the M240 apart except for the rangefinder?

 

If I was to see an M240 owner with outstretched arms and live-view trying to hold the camera steady while taking a picture of his dog (why didn't they make the darn monitor flippable anyway), I'd really be amused... :)

 

Cheers,

Arvid

 

PS: I do not want to make fun of the M240, but it is easier to make a fool of oneself than with a M6. Although with live-view one would possibly notice if the lenscap's still on. :)

 

PPS: I do not think the M240 is up to do the job that was asked in the original post. What's the sense in having so many features on board if you don't want to use them. And a M button? Really?

Edited by bla
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After using the M6, M8 and now the M240, all i can say is that the extra 80g of the M240 kind of crossed the boarder for me. I could carry my M6 all day long around my neck without a problem, but the M240 lost that kind of lightness und feels more like a brickstone around my neck.

 

Don't get me wrong, the M240 is the best digital camera leica has ever produced and is the best camera i ever owned. But the increase of wight and size is a bit of a bitter pill you have to swallow, specially since there are other cameras like the sony 7r witch is smaller, 200g lighter and also full frame for a fraction of the price.

 

The quality of the M240 is so good, i hope leica puts the focus for future models more on a decrease in size and weigh than more and more megapixels.

 

Like Apple Laptops, the get thinner, lighter AND faster every time :-)

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Sorry I don't understand you. A digital camera IS a computer.

 

A camera is a computer like my washing machine is a computer. Neither requires a display to fulfil the primary function for which they are designed. To be honest, I thought your earlier analogy was being made tongue in cheek – I didn't realise you were seriously equating a digital camera with a laptop.

Edited by wattsy
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Sorry I don't understand you. A digital camera IS a computer. To make full use of the features it can offer one really does need a display of some sort.

 

You're begging the conclusion. It needs the display because you apparently need all the features. What the OP wants, and indeed, that which has been the hallmark of Leica, is simplicity and minimalism.

 

I agree that it's outlandish to fully retreat to things as they were, photography has moved on, we snap away like never before. Paradoxically, now, when we have the ability to check the outcome on a display, we still crave for more and more automation.

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… one more thing about the weight. for me the M240 is now to heavy for using it without a handgrip. i always feel like the camera is slipping out of my hand. in fact, i dropped it already because of that. so now i bought the handgrip witch makes the camera even more heavy and brickstony. the classic and flat leica body is a very beautyful thing, but is not made for a camera of that weight. it should be noted here that the sony 7r even has that grip included, for 200g less!

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So just to sum it up once again:

 

if the camera had no displays => longer battery life, no display to get damaged or faulty, less weight

if it had a shutter cocking lever => longer battery life, hard to break, easy to repair, less weight, more space for battery

if it had no buttons on the backside except for ISO dial=>less electronics, less water entry points, less weight

No usb, microphone, headset or any other ports. Just a place to stick the memory card and the battery (for the sake of Leica-feeling under a bottom plate if it must be, though it is a pain if you are testing a lot and do have to do frequent SD card removal... :) )

 

You'd not be able to shoot 5fps obviously, I never need that anyway. (it's much more difficult to choose from 5 similar pictures than "the good ones go into the pot, the bad ones go into your crop")

You'd not be tempted to look at the results => more fun checking them afterwards, no chance to correct errors while taking the pictures though.

 

Let people choose if they want the bayer filter or not and I am sure there are people who'd be happy to buy one. Me for example. Though I'd be hard pressed to decide between color and bw... :)

Edited by bla
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