D2 vs. D80 - which is which?

[comapedrosa]

So, I had one of these existential doubts again today: should I replace my D2 as main camera (mostly to gain some shallow DOF)? And if yes, should I go M8 or 5D/D200? Glow vs. lightning fast auto-focus?

Having access to neither a 5D nor a D200, I borrowed a D80 w/ kit "AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6G IF-E"(very versatile, very small max apertures) from a friend. I first shot a couple "tests". These are not meant to be rigorous, scientific comparisons of the kind I myself would want to read in any serious review. But they do reflect the "normal" use I'd have for my camera (in 50% of the cases, resize, USM, post to web). Focal lengths and apertures were set to "roughly" provide similar outputs. All were shot in top resolution jpegs with "normal" or "standard" image parameters. There are 2 versions for each of the 2 series: the first is straight out of the camera, the second is after 100% velvia treatment through Alien Skin (which I've gotten to love recently, but is definitely over the top here).

First of all I was stunned by how similar the results were. It took me 1-2 minutes to find a real difference, but then I was pleased to discover that I preferred the D2 photos. It was right there in front of my eyes: the glow!

Then I moved on to take the official photos for a birthday party, and the story was quite different: I had never thought it would be so easy and fast to take pictures with an average prosumer DSLR. So I'm back to the initial dilemma: glow vs. lightning fast auto-focus! Now, please don't come to me with "horses for courses". Of course it's true, but I want to stick to one camera and make it mine.

If you like this sort of teasers, take a guess at which is which...

---series 1 - straight out of camera---
1d2-then-d80.jpg

---series 1 - after Alien Skin Velvia boost---
1d2-then-d80_velvia.jpg

---series 2 - straight out of camera---
2d2-then-d80_2.jpg

---series 2 - after Alien Skin Velvia boost---
2d2-then-d80_2_velvia.jpg

Here are 2 more I liked from today – straight out of D80 (resized, USM, saved for web)…
3DSC_0045_web.jpg

DSC_0015_web.jpg

[comapedrosa]

I should add that there are plenty of reasons why I’m still strongly biased towards the D2 and the M system. In particular the unobtrusiveness and the intuitive control of only the few essential photographic parameters (as opposed to playing - and in my case dreading - a computer). Creativity through limitations.

[rivi1969]

Hello my friend.

I have both cameras, use them extensively for a few months now and this are my 2 cents:
In a computer monitor is almost impossible to distinguish which camera took which picture, but I would say that in the first example the #1 one is the D80 because I see more detail in the flower pots and a more narrow DOF. (I don't know which aperture you use so its only a guess)

In the pool shot... again, the first one is the D80's, the additional 5MP paid off as we can see much more detail in the floor.

I don't consider the D80 as "an average prosumer dslr" in my modest opinion is a far more capable camera than the D2 in many aspects: AF speed, raw buffering, viewfinder, battery life, in camera parameters, resolution, noise control... and so on. I have done 8x10 and 11x14 print tests from both at iso 100, 200 and 400 and the D2 files at anything above iso 100 looks terrible but you can show D80 files at iso 1250 with pride.

I also agree that the D2 files at iso 100 (I only shoot raw by the way) are awesome, I always talk about the bold and deep colors, and the wide tonal range... in fact a few weeks ago I post some of my D2 pictures here to discuss about its beautiful tonal range. At the end I guess they are both great cameras for specific reasons don't you think?

In fact sadly I just put this morning my D2 for sale on ebay because I will put that money down for the D3/L1 and some R primes in my quest for the Leica glow along with a competitive sensor.

Regards
Ricardo Villagran

[dugby]

Last year I did a shoot with my D2 and a friend with a D80.

The differences were immediately obvious on 6x4 prints.

As stated previously......very hard to see on a monitor.

But... I'll give it a try.....

D80
D2

D80
D2

D2/D80
D2/D80

[comapedrosa]

Ricardo and Dugby,
Thank you so much for your input. Actually, the answer was:
series 1: D2 on top; D80 at the bottom
series 2: D2 on the left; D80 on the right

Ricardo,
I also found that the D80's responsiveness and features were impressive. On the other hand the D2 images have that little extra that seems to make the difference between “blah” and very appealing (micro contrast?). Hence, I'm back to my initial problem, and it seems like the only real answer is "horses for courses". Oh, I still don't know what to do...

Thanks again,

[rivi1969]

My friend,

We change cars, pens, computers... why not change our photo gear from time to time?
I don't fall in love with cameras, I fall in love with the pictures I take with them, and I think you should keep both if you can. Each one has its own strenghts and both are superb.

I decided to put on sale the D2 for these reasons:

1. I never get used to the EVF (It never made me feel close to my subjects. It is not a pleasant way of see things through a tiny TV)
2. The unsuable files at iso 200/400
3. I need the D2 money to buy the D3.

I am confident the L1/D3 will give me the exact same look than the D2 but cleaner and with bigger files. In fact I just bought today a 35mm Summicron like new for it, so I will have the chance to use Leica glass in a semi-analogue body without going the M8 way. Then I maybe sell the Nikon gear, get the upcoming Olympus pro body, the 25mm Summilux and stick with 4/3rds for a long time.

Have fun!
Ricardo

[comapedrosa]

Ricardo, I guess you're right. I need to get more comfortable with experimenting with gear... I came from 24 years of F3 before getting the D2 and always believed in learning to master my equipment rather than using it as an excuse for my lack of talent...

Anyhow, I'm not seriously considering a full swing to a 5D+heavy L zoom... What were your thoughts about 5D vs. D200 vs. D80?

[rivi1969]

Well, in fact my first Dslr experience was with Canon. Before that I used to be a Nikon shooter (F3 too) I sold the Canon as soon as I can, first because of the plastiky body, and the fragile kit lens. The XT compared with the F3 body was a joke.

Then I got the Nikon D70 and I loved it... I got the 50mm 1.4 AF, upgraded a few months ago to the D80 with the battery pack and SB-800 flash. Wonderful gear but big, vey big not the camera you want to carry around when you don't want to be noticed! The D200 is much more heavier.

In my humble opinion the Canon files look dull, flat, more digital. The Nikon are more film-like even though they don't have the Leica glow. That is why I will migrate to 4/3rds starting with the L1 which I have great expectations with, and see what's coming next.

Please if you have a minute, take a look at my pictures in Zenfolio | Ricardo Villagran photography to see how do you like them.

Regards
Ricardo

[rivi1969]

Well, in fact my first Dslr experience was with Canon. Before that I used to be a Nikon shooter (F3 too) I sold the Canon as soon as I can, first because of the plastiky body, and the fragile kit lens. The XT compared with the F3 body was a joke.

Then I got the Nikon D70 and I loved it... I got the 50mm 1.4 AF, upgraded a few months ago to the D80 with the battery pack and SB-800 flash. Wonderful gear but big, vey big not the camera you want to carry around when you don't want to be noticed! The D200 is much more heavier.

In my humble opinion the Canon files look dull, flat, more digital. The Nikon are more film-like even though they don't have the Leica glow. That is why I will migrate to 4/3rds starting with the L1 which I have great expectations with, and see what's coming next.
Also I have read great things about the Ricoh GX100, a pocket camera with almost SLR file quality... Maybe you should take a look at it too.

Anyway, please if you have a minute, take a look at my pictures in Zenfolio | Ricardo Villagran photography to see how do you like them.

Regards!
Ricardo

[comapedrosa]

Well Ricardo, thanks so much for your thoughts: it seems like we're going in the same circles as far as gear is concerned. But thanks above all for the link to your work: I like it very much. Surreal, dreamy and careful. It seems to me that you deserve an M8!

[rivi1969]

I am glad you like my work, I really appreaciate your kind words... Yes, I can see an M8 in the future but I am going to start with the L1... since I do a lot of portraits I just bought a 35mm summicron for it so there is no coming back, now I need to find the camera!!

Keep in touch and thanks again!
Ricardo