Does firmaware 1.102 force us to use IR filters?

[portocar]

I am happily using my M8 without $150.00 IR filters on the Leica $3000.00 lenses.

As a matter of fact Erwin Puts has a good argumen for using IR filters in only very specific conditions and leaving them of the lenses most of the time. I have added the link to Erwin's article below:

http://www.imx.nl/photosite/leica/M8_7/m8_7.html

Does this new firmare give me the option to use my lenses without IR filters on them. Or are my forced to purchase filters, because the new firmware is always correcting for the cyan created by the IR filters.

Thanks

[ho_co]

You may still do as you want.

The firmware offers the choice of lens recognition off, lens recognition on, and lens recognition on with IR-cut filter.

If you prefer not using the filters, just set it for no lens recognition or lens recognition on (w/o filter).

[californiajay]

No you do not have to use them if you don't want to. There is a menu option with which you can tell the camera you have the filters in place.

[albertknappmd]

Howard-
Does this mean that, for example, if you have lens recognition on with IR on as well, you have to turn the IR "off" when you take an isolated shot without the IR filter on?

[chetccox]

There are 3 options. Lens detection off, lens detection on, and lens detection on with IR filter. So, yes - but you may not always notice the difference.

[robsteve]

Originally Posted by albertknappmd

Howard-
Does this mean that, for example, if you have lens recognition on with IR on as well, you have to turn the IR "off" when you take an isolated shot without the IR filter on?

If you took a shot with a wide angle like the 24mm and had coding/UV-IR on, but didn't have a filter on, the camera would correct for the nonexistant cyan corners and you would end up with red corners.

[erl]

. . . and in the red corner we have . . . . !

Whoops! Sorry couldn't stop myself.

It's late. I'll go to bed and sleep it off. Promise.

... and I WILL load 1.102 onto my cam in the morning.

[jaapv]

It is much,much more simple: Just push the frame selector lever over and the lens recognition will be switched off.

[robsteve]

Originally Posted by jaapv

It is much,much more simple: Just push the frame selector lever over and the lens recognition will be switched off.

Doing that and you will miss out on the normal vignette correction a coded lens gives you. I am referring to the vignetting you get with wides from both the lens design and the proximity to the sensor and micro lenses.

[jaapv]

That is correct, but an exceedingly easy photoshop correction, . easier than cyan correction

[tummydoc]

Unless you're on a Mac, cyan correction in postprocessing is exceedingly simple. Believe me if I can do it, it's simple The Panotools plugin is a breeze. Moreover, different degrees of cyan correction are called for with the same lens in different lighting, but the firmware correction does not vary. I have proven to my satisfaction shooting a white wall under different lighting with the same (21mm) lens that the firmware over- or under-corrects to a degree. It does not seem to be tied into the WB because I've tried it with AWB, MWB and custom-WB.

[robsteve]

The Panotools is available for the Mac at the link below:

Panorama Tools

[wilfredo]

None of my lenses are coded but since I am usng the camera with the UVIR filters, I chose that option. Since my lenses are not coded, will it make any difference? Everything seems to be working fine with that option.

Cheers,
Wilfredo+

[Venkman]

Ok, I downloaded Pano Tools, tried the plugins and realized that I have no clue what to do.

Can anyone point me to a source of documentation on how to correct vignetting using those tools or run me down a short list on how to start?

[ho_co]

Originally Posted by albertknappmd

Howard-
Does this mean that, for example, if you have lens recognition on with IR on as well, you have to turn the IR "off" when you take an isolated shot without the IR filter on?

Albert--Theoretically, yes, as Robert mentioned.

With lens detection off, the camera still does a certain amount of vignetting correction with its microlenses, but I don't think it makes any correction of the cyan corners in that state.

But once you turn on lens detection with coded lenses, the camera needs to know whether you're using the filter or not so that it knows whether or not to engage the correction for cyan corners.

But then, that's less necessary for lenses 50mm and longer. Some people on the forum even feel that it isn't necessary to have lenses of greater than 35mm focal length coded at all.

Best results for IR correction come with coded lenses and IR filters, increasingly so with lenses wider than 35mm. But some scenes for which you choose not to use the filter might not be greatly affected if the camera processed them as if it had the filter--for example, there's probably negligible difference with a lens 50mm or longer.

The best thing to do is probably to test it with your equipment. Empirical tests beat my theoretical speculations every time.

--HC

[teehas53]

The choice whether to use filters or not seems fairly simple to me. If you want the best color rendition, use them - for B&W work, they are not necessary. These facts are pretty well established by now. Vignetting can be controlled in software, as many have pointed out.

As for using them sometimes and not others, with all due respect to those who would embrace this method, it seems like just another workflow complication, and with a rather small payoff at that. If one can work leisurely enough to think about adding or removing filters on the fly, shot by shot, then by all means do so. The (exceedingly) small degradation that a fine, modern filter will cause in your images may be worth it to you. OTOH, the more you allow Murphy the opportunity to get into what you're doing, the more often he's going to climb on your back and smack you...

YMMV, just my two cents-worth (oh wait, this is the Leica forum, so that's gotta be at least four cents... )

Tom

[LJL]

Originally Posted by teehas53

The choice whether to use filters or not seems fairly simple to me. If you want the best color rendition, use them - for B&W work, they are not necessary. These facts are pretty well established by now. Vignetting can be controlled in software, as many have pointed out.

As for using them sometimes and not others, with all due respect to those who would embrace this method, it seems like just another workflow complication, and with a rather small payoff at that. If one can work leisurely enough to think about adding or removing filters on the fly, shot by shot, then by all means do so. The (exceedingly) small degradation that a fine, modern filter will cause in your images may be worth it to you. OTOH, the more you allow Murphy the opportunity to get into what you're doing, the more often he's going to climb on your back and smack you...

YMMV, just my two cents-worth (oh wait, this is the Leica forum, so that's gotta be at least four cents... )

Tom

Tom,
These are exactly the points that several have been making from the very onset, and I agree with them wholeheartedly. Get the filters, stick them on your coded lenses(original, retrofit or hand method of coding), and forget about them. Set the camera to recognize your coded lens with the filter and be done with it. Processing a DNG file for B/W use is a complete non-issue....you can tweak things however you want and there are several very nice profiles to help you along for almost any processing app. The real "trick" here is using lenses with a coding that M8 can recognize. If all you do is B/W work, then fine, do not use the filters, but do use coded lenses to help with in-camera vignetting correction. The more things you can correct BEFORE the file is written as a DNG, the better off you will be, in most case. Just my thinking here.

And if you think Murphy was not serious, his cousin O'Toole thought Murphy was an optimist

LJ

[guy_mancuso]

Well LJ and Tom could not have said it better myself and also i am a completely filter on user. I am NOT going to be playing the on and off game. Finally we have the correct firmware that allows that to do that perfectly every time and my thoughts on cyan cast , magenta blacks and all that BS just went down the toilet.

Everything is in place except two things getting the coding on the lenses or having the manual coding in the menu options
Oops three getting the darn filters in our hands but again there are only 3 lenses and maybe 4 that will need the leica filters for sure CV 15/ WATE , Zeiss 15mm and looks like maybe the 21 elmarit after a test i just did on the WATE but we need someone to test the 21mm elmarit itself.

Frankly folks i could not be more pleased except the filters for me, everything is already coded except the 75 and 90mm

[robsteve]

Originally Posted by tummydoc

Unless you're on a Mac, cyan correction in postprocessing is exceedingly simple. Believe me if I can do it, it's simple The Panotools plugin is a breeze. Moreover, different degrees of cyan correction are called for with the same lens in different lighting, but the firmware correction does not vary. I have proven to my satisfaction shooting a white wall under different lighting with the same (21mm) lens that the firmware over- or under-corrects to a degree. It does not seem to be tied into the WB because I've tried it with AWB, MWB and custom-WB.

Which 21mm lens did you use?