M8.1

[jrc]

In another thread, somebody brought up, in passing, the question of whether there might be an altered M8 in the next year or so -- an M8.1 or a M8x. Not a new model, just this model with changes, like a stronger IR filter, or an altered set of functions on on the back panel buttons. Leica made very small changes in some of the film cameras, so they've got that ability in their culture.

My feeling is that if there's any truth to the R10 rumors (that one is under development) that Leica will be too preoccuppied with that for a while to bring out an M9, but if it was just a matter of getting slightly different filter cover glass from Kodak...

Think there's a chance? A good chance?

JC

[Shootist]

I seriously doubt it but if there is the older M8 model should be able to be updated to the newer version AT a modest cost.

[johnwolf]

John,

So much can be done with firmware, and with no production line changes. In fact, most of the issues in the "Laundry List" sticky thread could or are being handled through firmware. You'd think Leica's focus would remain there for a while.

John

[larry]

Leica has typically made minor improvements to most M models during their production runs, but rarely changed the model name. For example, the M7 has had changes made to its viewfinder and auto-ISO contacts. It stands to reason that the M8 will get the necessary upgrades to ensure its reliability. However, I'd be very surprised if Leica renamed it.

Larry

[Jager]

No chance. There will be firmware changes/improvements, and perhaps very modest tweaks to the hardware over time, but no "point release model" (a la Nikon's propensity to bring out an "s" model).

As for the IR filter, the technological issues which caused Leica to make the engineering decisions they did - still remain. Nothing is going to change in that area in the forseeable future.

Jeff

[barjohn]

I'm not so sure about IR filter technology not being available. The attached specification from Kyocera for their filter glass would easily meet the specification and it is available as thin as 0.15mm and to CCD size. Probably not cheap.

[jonoslack]

Originally Posted by barjohn

I'm not so sure about IR filter technology not being available. The attached specification from Kyocera for their filter glass would easily meet the specification and it is available as thin as 0.15mm and to CCD size. Probably not cheap.

Hi John
I don't think it would meet the specification at all - it doesn't deal with the problem of the light hitting the sensor at variable angles at the edges - which was why Leica put in the weak IR filter in the first place.

[barjohn]

I think it does talk about handling various angles of incidence with the coated lens. In any case, that was a quick example from a very quick google search. I am guessing if someone in the business wanted a .5mm glass filter with different characterisitics it could be found though the price would probably be high. I am not convinced that it is a technical problem as much as a technical problem at a price point.

[jrc]

There was a guy (maybe named Joe?) who used to come to this forum fairly frequently, and seemed familiar with the technical aspects of various kinds of filter technology, and he said flatly that glass with the IR specs (including thickness) that Leica needed for the sensor filter was available, they just didn't use it. Perhaps because they didn't think they needed to. IIRC, he suggested that price wasn't really a factor -- but I'm not sure about that last bit.

When I asked as OP if there would be an M8.1, I wasn't asking if they'd literally use that name, I was just wondering if there would be an altered version that would make some difference in how we'd use the camera. (For example, if Leica changed the sensor filter, that would be awkward for somebody who wanted two bodies but had one that needed the external IR filters, and one that didn't.)

JC

[Woody Campbell]

There is a plausable rumor of an future B&W only M8.

[andym911]

In an earlier post this question came up and I am still certain that Leica will launch a new M digital at photokina.A must do scenario imo.
Probably a higher res B&W only product , plus new lens range suited to digital.
just my two eurocents.
andy

[gravastar]

Originally Posted by jrc

There was a guy (maybe named Joe?) who used to come to this forum fairly frequently, and seemed familiar with the technical aspects of various kinds of filter technology, and he said flatly that glass with the IR specs (including thickness) that Leica needed for the sensor filter was available, they just didn't use it. Perhaps because they didn't think they needed to. IIRC, he suggested that price wasn't really a factor -- but I'm not sure about that last bit............................................... .....

None of those would be "R" problems...: Leica Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

Now I'll go and wash my mouth out with Red Dot brand soap.

Bob.

[scott kirkpatrick]

Originally Posted by jrc

There was a guy (maybe named Joe?) who used to come to this forum fairly frequently, and seemed familiar with the technical aspects of various kinds of filter technology, and he said flatly that glass with the IR specs (including thickness) that Leica needed for the sensor filter was available, they just didn't use it. Perhaps because they didn't think they needed to. IIRC, he suggested that price wasn't really a factor -- but I'm not sure about that last bit.

When I asked as OP if there would be an M8.1, I wasn't asking if they'd literally use that name, I was just wondering if there would be an altered version that would make some difference in how we'd use the camera. (For example, if Leica changed the sensor filter, that would be awkward for somebody who wanted two bodies but had one that needed the external IR filters, and one that didn't.)

JC

Joseph S Wisniewski has designed his own technical (large format?) cameras for inspection applications, and brought a lot of lens design knowledge to the discussion last fall. He posts regularly on DPREVIEW, and uses a wide range of cameras that he has access to, teaching at a photo school in Detroit. His opinion, which I share, is that Leica didn't look far enough down any of the decision paths that they took to see the problems they would end up with. We don't know how much the cost of the IR filter contributes to the cost of the sensor but expect it is a small amount. The most plausible reason not to use a stronger absorbing glass would be that it wasn't available on the required schedule from a sufficiently trusted supplier.

I would assume that small changes in the electronics of the M8 are being made from time to time, since the manufacturing is done in small batches. An earlier unit returned for repair or tuning up might get the benefit of these, but they wouldn't require a new model number. An example of such changes would be whatever tricks they come up with to make the camera less vulnerable to strange battery behavior near the end of a charge.

scott