does anyone else have an M8 color issue with reds?

[jedisdl]

I shoot in RAW and use PS raw converter for the DNG's. I've noticed several images that require increasing the red HUE by +80 or more for accurate color representation. It's been necessary particuarly when shooting images having reds, and also, tan leather and skin tones. The skin tones and tan leather were in a room lit by halogen lamps (closest was 6 feet away); the reds were both indoors and outside in mixed lighting. This happens both with and without a B&W UVIR 486 cut filter and on different lenses.

The prints are fine, but I'd like to know if my M8 ("second" batch sn 31052xx) is at fault or if this is characteristic of the current M8's.

Otherwise, this M8 takes wonderful pictures, lots of detail, etc. - and, of course, with all the typical issues (e.g. green horizonantal band to midway in image with strong side light source is present, vertical band 58% from left to right side - including in real shooting as shot not just with increased exposure). Obviously, the plusses easily outwiegh the annoying problems that hopefully will be fixed.

[sparkie]

can you post some images so we can see what you are describing?

[pascal_meheut]

Do not use PS raw converter with M8 or DMR files unless you have a special profile. Colors are way out of line and this is well known.

[lepremier]

Just a quick reply on this until I can post the raw's.....I was out in the local Botanical Gardens today photographing orchids and the colour giving the only problem was just this one. "Fuchsia" described as "purple-red", the camera can't seem to handle it all. I found it almost impossible to correct in Lightroom as well...no problem on my D-Lux3 tho', perfect colouring!!??
Managed to attach the jpegs now...sorry they are a bit on the large size.
The third one is actually the correct colour, all taken using the Noctilux lens (non existant depth of field and finding this very difficult to handle at the moment) at max aperture F1. Shutter speeds listed as 1/250, 1/2000 and 1/6000 from top to bottom.

[lars_bergquist]

Practically the first thing I did when my M8 arrived was to bring out the Kodak Color Patches and the Gray Scale (I have pasted them both to a piece av medium-grey cardboard) and shoot them under controlled lighting conditions. They came out just fine, without any filter. So it must be the processing.

The old man from the Age of Daylight Kodachrome

[robsteve]

If you are using PhotoShop, download the latest ACR 3.6. When converting files, select the calibrate tab and where it says embedded, change the selection to ACR 3.6. The colours should look a bit better.

[jedisdl]

Attached are 3 images re: my earlier post on color correction issues -

d200.jpg

M8.jpg

m8 red hue +71.jpg

D200 - as shot (from RAW)
M8 - as shot (from RAW)
M8 - shot modified in PS camera raw converter - mainly adding 71 to red hue

On the M8 uncorrected image:
1. the baby picture - face is quite red
2. the pocketbook has a reddish hue although it's really tan

Both the D200 and the corrected M8 image are closer to actual colors.



I haven't retained any of my outdoor red images having a fuchsia look as shot, but will try for some later.

[sean_reid]

I would recommend always looking to the RAW Processor and Color Profiles before being concerned about the camera (setting aside the IR thing). Color problems often trace to a combination of raw software and color profiles. C1 is pretty well dialed in but the profiles need work. See alternate profiles from people on this forum.

Cheers,

Sean

[Woody Campbell]

This kind of fuschia is a tough color for fiim and most digital cameras. I suspect that it's a gamut issue (similar to the problem with "international rescue orange").

[mjh]

Originally Posted by Woody Campbell

This kind of fuschia is a tough color for fiim and most digital cameras.

It is a tough colour for both RGB sensors and film because there is no way to tell magenta from blue, unless it isn’t a pure magenta, but a mixture of red and blue. Magenta has an ever shorter wavelength than blue, so blue-sensitive sensor cells will be the only ones detecting magenta. Fortunately, the green-sensitive cells will generally capture some blue as well, so the key to distinguishing magenta and blue is to regard any blue with a small amount of green as blue, but a pure blue as magenta. Getting this right – even as far as the sensor and its filter array allows – is quite tricky.

[carstenw]

What colour profile are you using, with what software?

[lepremier]

Can someone explain tho' why my DLux 3 handles the red/blue/magenta issue a lot better than my million dollar M8!!

[bradreiman]

Originally Posted by lepremier

Can someone explain tho' why my DLux 3 handles the red/blue/magenta issue a lot better than my million dollar M8!!

yes...the dlux3 has nowhere near the ir sensitivity of the m8.....b

[eronald]

You might do well to find a B+W 486 filter for your lens (eliminates the IR) and use my profiles in C1 (the only one your really need is the linear profile).

This should fix your reds, within reasonable limits. The results are not yet quite perfect for very saturated reds.

Profile Download Page

If you are shooting JPG, I can make a Jpeg profile available, but of course it is less flexible than the C1 profile.

Edmund

[jedisdl]

Thanks for all the comments.

Again, I was using a B&W 486 UVIR cut filter.

RE: photoshop -

I'm still using the original CS - waiting for CS3 to update so I can't use ACR 3.6 - CS is not updatable. Adobe only provides update for the current version (not very nice, but I guess "good" business practices). I'm not familiar with profiles and was waiting for CS3 to learn more about profiles.

However, I haev had good success by increasing the red hue on many images. I assume this should be incorporated into a profile.

At this point, C1 seems quite intimidating, but I guess I need to learn how to use it as well.


Thanks again.

Steve

[eronald]

If you use the M8 you should be using C1, in my opinion. It's quite easy.
The Adobe conversions of anything are aways a step behind the "native" converter.

If people start to use the profiles I will document them.

Edmund

[dhoelscher]

The other thing that you need to check is whether you have "blown" an individual color channel, like the blue channel.



Here in Texas, the state wildflower is the bluebonnet. When I went out with my shiny new D1X to photograph these flowers around my home in the Spring, guess what ... I got "purplebonnets" instead of bluebonnets.

The fix was both an IR blocker filter (the D1X had increased IR sensitivity) AND checking the individual RGB histograms to avoid overexposing just the blue channel. (this was impossible in the field, as the D1X didn't have individual RBG histograms).


What ended up working was a successive series of shots with progressively LESS exposure until the bluebonnets ended up looking blue.

It appears that purple and blue colors are difficult with any camera ...

Good Luck !!!

DH

[etrigan63]

Originally Posted by eronald

You might do well to find a B+W 486 filter for your lens (eliminates the IR) and use my profiles in C1 (the only one your really need is the linear profile).

This should fix your reds, within reasonable limits. The results are not yet quite perfect for very saturated reds.

Profile Download Page

If you are shooting JPG, I can make a Jpeg profile available, but of course it is less flexible than the C1 profile.

Edmund

The link does not work.

[ericperlberg]

It looks to me like there are some white balance issues. In the top 2 flower images white seems to have a yellow cast, in the 3rd , white is more neutral to blue. The top desk image white wall switches from yellow cast to blue/neutral in the 2nd and 3rd image. Do you fix the white balance as your first step?

[etrigan63]

To the OP:

could you post a link to the M8 DNG file for the rest of us to play with? We may be able to give you more insight that way (unless the image is full of personal information, in which case, nevermind).