Just got my M8! But... first experience with WB is tricky.

[hammam]

I just received my M8 from my dealer. Exactly three months less a day after I ordered it. But it's what I wanted, ie black. I guess you had to be more patient if you wanted black. What a thing of beauty. And I don't think I've ever seen such simple and clear menus. Tight fit for the lenses. Yes, the switch feels a bit flimsy. And I was taken aback by the sound of the shutter re-cocking. I thought I was shooting at 1 sec. every time

It was night when the battery was charged, so I just went around the house, shooting things here and there, in jpeg fine, under tungsten lighting. Hmm... It that WB tricky or what? Auto is just acceptable. Tungsten is... well, not good. I tried K. and 3400-3600 did it. I guess DNG will be in order most of the time. Or manual WB. At least for tungsten.

Is your experience with WB under tungsten similar? Any advice? Thanks.

Can't wait to go out in daylight, though it's gonna be 0 F. tomorrow. Time to see how the M8 behaves in the cold.

I feel privileged. I think I'm gonna love this thing.

BTW, I have this little Canon 220 EX speedlite. Anyone think it might not be safe to use with the M8?

Thanks again.

[harmsr]

Congrats on getting your M8.

Yes, the WB is terrible. Shoot in DNG and adjust it post processing.

I was in Montreal the majority of all last week, and the M8 performed with no problems at all in the cold. (Much better than I did. - It really reminded me of why I moved to Phoenix, AZ in 2004.)

Best,

Ray

[LJL]

Olivier,
Congratulations on your M8! I envy you right now, as mine is in Solms for its fix. Counting the days....

WB is still a bit shaky on the M8, and you probably picked the toughest challenge to find out. There are not too many cameras that I am aware of that handle WB very well in tungsten light, even on tungsten settings. As Ray has mentioned, shoot in RAW (DNG) and do your own WB when processing. Things really snap into form quickly. I carry a WhiBal card for taking shots in changing light conditions or mixed lighting, and it has really helped get very good WB in the image. Others have found that the Auto settings in Adobe Camera Raw (v 3.6) running in Lightroom and Photoshop CS2 are getting good approximations also.

The really nice thing, as you will probably discover yourself soon enough, is that the RAW files from the M8 are really nice to work with and are capable of producing quite outstanding images. And when you do get it outdoors, you will love the results also. Have to say that I do NOT envy the cold weather some folks are having to deal with. Down here on the "third coast", it will be a balmy 20C for the rest of the week. Enjoy!

LJ

[guy_mancuso]

Congrats on the M8 shoot it in good health.

[guy_mancuso]

BTW WB is tough for a lot of camera's out there when it comes to Tungsten light, so i would not expect miracles on that front but most of us agree that on the M8 it is not so hot but the good news you can work with it.

[guy_mancuso]

Originally Posted by LJL

Olivier,
Congratulations on your M8! I envy you right now, as mine is in Solms for its fix. Counting the days....

WB is still a bit shaky on the M8, and you probably picked the toughest challenge to find out. There are not too many cameras that I am aware of that handle WB very well in tungsten light, even on tungsten settings. As Ray has mentioned, shoot in RAW (DNG) and do your own WB when processing. Things really snap into form quickly. I carry a WhiBal card for taking shots in changing light conditions or mixed lighting, and it has really helped get very good WB in the image. Others have found that the Auto settings in Adobe Camera Raw (v 3.6) running in Lightroom and Photoshop CS2 are getting good approximations also.

The really nice thing, as you will probably discover yourself soon enough, is that the RAW files from the M8 are really nice to work with and are capable of producing quite outstanding images. And when you do get it outdoors, you will love the results also. Have to say that I do NOT envy the cold weather some folks are having to deal with. Down here on the "third coast", it will be a balmy 20C for the rest of the week. Enjoy!

LJ

We posted the same time but i agree also. Hey did the cron show up yet

[DaveSee]

Originally Posted by harmsr

Congrats on getting your M8.

Yes, the WB is terrible. Shoot in DNG and adjust it post processing.

Hiyas, and please enjoy this tremendous little beast, the M8...

I do, however, wonder--given the IR "contamination" issue, the reported "super-wide color gamut"(see LL article, etc.), and the also reported 10+ levels of dynamic range--how this evidently over-sensitive digital system could possibly compare to the much more hampered, DR optimised(in in-camera processing) "auto white balance" correct(sic) systems which came before? Let's not dip into Wittgenstein to truely know what "white" is, nor expect that every image must have a few "0" blacks and "255" whites.

I'm not suggesting "AWB" is an awful need, in fact, many have got terrific images using it, and as in-camera JPEGS. I'm also not defending the M8 system and its color temp perceptions. I would like to hear/read from those who've used MF digital backs, with greater than 10MP resolution, to better understand the "upper bounds" of acceptable color temp functions. To the point, does the M8 read color temp at the first press of the shutter release--as then the A(E) function is engaged--or at image capture? I suspect the former, and this seems evident in posts that AWB reads differently between shots... from a data processing perspective, it would be "faster" to prepare the data "filters" before processing the file for writing.

The WB of the M8 is not bad, per se, but the AWB is, well, sensitive... too sensitive for folks used to less sensitive systems. That they bothered to provide the common P&S presets is indicative of less sensitive photog. I am one of those less sensitive, and it was film that numbed me, not a P&S. Yes, WB is tricky, but I wouldn't side-step the very interesting learning that is there by choosing a Kelvin temp yourself, or Mr. Roberts' post about the "Pringles'" lid(I like the odd styrofoam cup, myself )... doucement... it's light after all!

rgds,
Dave

[LJL]

Originally Posted by guy_mancuso

We posted the same time but i agree also. Hey did the cron show up yet

UPS says Tuesday. I will be waiting, but will probably have to drop by the dealer to "borrow" one of his M8s to play with it for a while until mine comes back. Will let you know when it arrives. Thanks.

LJ

[guy_mancuso]

Let's hope for some firmware tweaks on this.

[LJL]

Dave,
I agree that it would be nice to be able to find something a bit more reliable. Doing an actual color temp reading and setting that should brings things closer, if the two scales are really the same. The "ExpoDisc" or "Pringles lid" may do a better job of providing a more "averaged" light reading with fewer hot/cold spots. The only thing that tends to make that hard is that you must point the camera at the light source to take your readings. May work in some settings, but sometimes a bit harder in places like homes, cafes, even smaller auditoriums and such. The lgiht sources there also tend not to be even or even the same.

On the whole, I do think that a pretty decent average can be obtained. I am just not sure why that is not happening so well in the M8 AWB mode. It does need some tweaking, which may be a long, fine-tuning exercise for a bit.

LJ

[guy_mancuso]

From what i hear the WB comes from a external window and also internally and balances the two readings to determine the WB. For me because i shoot Raw it really is not a issue but for jpeg shooters yes you have to be much more carefull in this area .

[Jamie Roberts]

I was astounded to see the other day that Pringles has changed the lid of their potato-chip like thing they do (I don't eat that stuff!).

So it's not translucent white anymore, but transparent gray. With 'best before' date writing on it, no less!

Ah well. So *don't use the Pringle's lid if you can see through it* is the rule

And don't forget two white coffee filters; they work the best of anything I've just picked up and used, and they're cheap!

BTW--with an expodisc or anything like that, the way you deal with mixed light and custom WB is to pick the main light and balance for that. You'd do the same in RAW (or in film, for that matter).

Also, if you can't actually aim directly at the light source with your ExpoDisc or coffee filters, you should still aim it at something bright and neutral (a wall for instance) and set the custom WB from there....

AWB on the M8 is terrible, currently, relatively speaking. I'm sure they'll get around to tweaking it one day! Fortunately, custom WB works just fine!

[hammam]

Thanks for your comments and encouragements, guys. I took an hour off my work today to go out and shoot some snow scenes in a graveyard under sunny skies. Left the M8 on Auto WB and fine jpeg, at 160, and it did a pretty good job. I used a CV 21 and a Summicron 50. What surprised me was that my usual +1,5 stop of compensation for sunny snow scenes was a bit too much, and the pictures came out just a tad over-exposed. I guess the meter does a better job at evaluating the whole scene than I expected, even though it's just center-weighted. But I have to do it again to make sure, and check the histogram and the clippings more often.

I will shoot Raw as soon as my learning of the camera will be done. Though I've done quite a bit of C1 LE, I don't have much time for both the M8 and the conversion these days.

I love this camera.

[guy_mancuso]

There is a little trick you can do with the shutter and meter too Oliver. You can meter a scene or a piece of it that you want too meter for a shot . Than hold the shuter half way to hold the exposure. I think it holds for 12 seconds than recompose what you want and you get that metering reading you want. Example bright sunny day but you want the shadows so take a meter reading off the shadow area than recompsoe with the sun. That maybe a little drastic since the bright area's will blow but you see what you can do in tricky spots.

[hammam]

Originally Posted by guy_mancuso

There is a little trick you can do with the shutter and meter too Oliver. You can meter a scene or a piece of it that you want too meter for a shot . Than hold the shuter half way to hold the exposure. I think it holds for 12 seconds than recompose what you want and you get that metering reading you want. Example bright sunny day but you want the shadows so take a meter reading off the shadow area than recompsoe with the sun. That maybe a little drastic since the bright area's will blow but you see what you can do in tricky spots.

Thanks for the help, Guy. That's what I usually do, and I never use exp. compensation. It's either manual, or spot metering somewhere. I was in manual mode, however, on this occasion everything was so bright, snow everywhere, bright skies... that I would have a hard time finding a «shadow» area, or a «18% grey», especially with a 21 mm (28 FOV). BTW. this prompts me to ask: how would you rate the M8 meter in terms of center-weight? Is it more towards 80/20 or 60/40? Thanks.

[guy_mancuso]

I would lean towards the 80/20 . Sometimes you can stick your hand in there to meter , sounds weird but does work