Version 1.3 speculation for the DMR

[guy_mancuso]

I had a wild thought about why this is taking leica so long to come out with version 1.3. as you all know 1.2 came out and was very buggy from Imacon and it has been months since they fixed it . First question is why so long, second thought is maybe it may not come from Imacon. Hmmmm Long pause of thought here.

Okay this is a wild one but what if . Leica said screw them we will just have our new vendor for the M8 build a new firmware for the DMR. That way we can share the same raw procesing software for both bodies and slightly different firmware for each system to support the M and R within there systems. We all have speculated that Jenoptiks is the company for the M8 and they do have nice software for there MF digital Backs today, so this would give them a chance to increase there software package and support Leica system wide with there firmware. Is this a crazy thought or what. But it actually makes really good sense to do this from leica's point of view. Thoughts


Then to add more fuel to this , someone said on this very board that we will see version 1.3 in October . Now is this not the same exact time the M8 hits the streets. Hmmm, Another very long pause of thought.

[starwatcher]

Guy,

I was told 1.3 will be released before Photokina, that is September. Maybe I said October because Photokina stretches into OCT.
I understood 1.3 is a joint make of Imacon and Leica.

best - Klaus

[marknorton]

From my own experience, it's always a problem when a third party's priorities change. I daresay that Imacon were as keen as mustard to start with, but after the reported problems and pressures getting the DMR to market plus the new relationship with Hasselblad, I can imagine they are working to the T&C's of the contract but not much more.

Hopefully the relationship with Jenoptik is better. I have a 1971 Carl Zeiss Jena Pancolar 50mm f1.8 which was the dream lens when I was a kid. Built in probably the same location as the M8 firmware 35 years on...

[timbedsted1234]

Guy,

The Imacon firmware writes to a given technical infrastructure or API for the concrete electrical wiring in the DM-R.

To have Jenoptik replace that they would have to completely rewrite the software, in addition because Imacon have copyright for the current firmware. Jenoptik would have to start from scratch. Bearing in mind that the writing of the firmware was the main culprit in the delayed launch date of the DM-R I would think not.
However, I do see your point and the change in firmware vendor on the part of Leica wasn't made by them voluntarily but due to the merger between Imacon/Hasselblad.

A different and probably more valid reason is that the limited resources of Leica is stretched out completely to meet the Photokina deadline, so they have had to prioritize the M8 over the R line, which makes a lot of sense. The M8 will either make or break Leicacan

However, there were comforting remarks from Spichtig. The appointment of a development manager from Nokia, shows that top management has fully grapsed that building electronic products is a very different beast compared to building primarily mechanical products. Coming from the mobile phone business he knows that in the electonic world products have a dramatically shortened life cycle. I think we should prepare for a dramatic increase in product innovations from Leica

Also not that they are investing in a clean room! Now I don't see why you would need that just in order to assemble electronic circuits, uhm...

In addition Dalsa has just completed a 111mp CCD sensor as a custom development for the US navy. So Dalsa could be enlisted to build the new 16-24mp FF sensor for the R10 or the next version of M8/DM-R mk II

I think a second version of DM-R with a 14-16mp CCD sensor, perhaps 16+ A/D converter could easily be made with Jenoptik supplying the firmware.

Interesting times
Tim

[guy_mancuso]

i realize this is a wild hair , no question about it but it does make some sense. The leica/Imacon relationship is pretty sour from what i have heard because of the release of the DMR timeframe. It's been over a year maybe the contract is over.

Tim we posted at the same time. interesting thoughts but lets say to completely rewrite the code for the DMR is maybe something that can easily be done for what the already did for the M8 with some code changes and such. I am not a engineer and don't grasp the whole picture of doing such a update like that

[timbedsted1234]

Guy,

The CCD sensor is placed on a electronic circuit board. The firmware is used to control this circuit board. The M8 will use a completely different board and also a different type of battery, so it is not a cut and paste operation to switch from Imacon to Jenoptik.

Even if the contract lapses the Imacon will still have intellectual copyright to the firmware. I think Leica would need to make a mark II DM-R to get out of the Imacon relationship without paying through their noses.

The basic knowledge in the operation and control of a CCD, which Leica learned during the long gestation period of the DM-R has of course been reused for the M8, probably also why Leica feel more comfortable about their ability to deliver on the M8

Tim

[jcraig]

On March 29th 2006 Leica said:

"Much to our regret some customers are experiencing a slight colour cast when playing pictures back on the modules display after updating with the version 1.2. Leica Camera will provide an improved version of the new firmware regarding this function shortly"

This information was provided on the Leica download web site. What could shortly mean?

I personally have written FOUR e-mails wanting some, any information about the firmware version 1.3 and have not even had a simple answer or reply back. These mails are WEEKS old.

My third letter said:

Dear sir,

I have written to Leica now THREE times and still have NOT received an answer.*

I am a proud Leica camera owner... and I have been a big Leica supporter for many years, and especially during these past many months when support was badly needed.

ALL I have asked is that I receive a REPLY. I don't even care if I get an answer, all I have wanted is a REPLY!

The following letter was my third mail, and THIS e-mail to you, is the fourth. I have not once received even a common reply. There is simply no excuse for not replying to a client!

Please simply reply.

Sincerely,

signed

My first three letters said:

To whom it may concern,

I have now written to Leica THREE times and have not received a reply.

I am a LOYAL Leica customer, I have spent MANY TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS ON LEICA EQUIPMENT over a number of years.

All I asked in my e-mail was when could I (we) expect an update to the firmware for the DMR as 1.2 was faulty.

I think it is a TERRIBLE business custom to not answer mail. I do not write internal Leica company policy but in companies I have written policy for... all company personnel were expected to answer all mail within 24 hours.

Another policy is ANSWER THE PUBLIC'S QUESTIONS!!

My two mails to Leica were BOTH sent over two weeks ago and I still have received no reply!!

Would you please answer my simple question, and if you do not have an answer at least have the decency to say you do not know, and refer me to someone who might!

I was one of the ORIGINAL first DMR owners in the world.

The 1.2 did not work well, especially with 4 GB cards.

All I am asking is when do you expect the 1.3 to be released?

Thank you,

signed

[mgcd]

Craig - We're all waiting patiently for news on firmware update 1.3. Unfortunately, Leica is not going to answer you here. Although this site is indeed sponsored by Leica as the official Leica User site, this is not their customer support channel.

[timbedsted1234]

Conrad,

I think Craig is ticked off because they didn't snwer his PM to them. I would also be pretty livid. It is basic courtesy in the business worldand elsewhere to reply if only to recognize the receipt of the mail.

Tim

[ho_co]

Craig--
Doesn't sound as if you're holding up your end of the bargain.

1) You don't say which facility you wrote to--Leica USA or Leica Solms? (This may make little difference since Germany sends some requests to the US.)
2) You don't say whom you wrote to in that facility. Address it directly to a person competent to respond.
3) You're not the only one complaining; they want to supply the information as soon as possible. But if the only information they have is that the update will come shortly, you've already got the latest information. Judging from the tone of what you just showed us, you might not respond happily to an e-mail that said simply, "Much to our regret some customers are experiencing a slight colour cast when playing pictures back on the modules display after updating with the version 1.2. Leica Camera will provide an improved version of the new firmware regarding this function shortly."
4) E-mail is not the best way to handle such matters. Send a letter, or pick up the phone.
5) Don't blame Leica for an issue with their suppliers.

Just a couple things to consider.

Cordially,
--HC

[timbedsted1234]

Originally Posted by ho_co

5) Don't blame Leica for an issue with their suppliers.

Hello,

I buy the thing from Leica. If I shouldn't complain to Leica when it doesn't work then to whom?

Leica is ultimately responsible for the specifications and build quality of the DM-R.

It is the same as saying if the transmission of my VW doesn't work, then I should complain to sub vendor XXX who built that particular component It is not the responsbility of VW.

Cheers,
Tim

[guy_mancuso]

I do agree on one thing and that is they should communicate to DMR owners for sure. Okay the 1.2 did not work give us a timetable when 1.3 will be up. Sorry i am a customer also and i have a right to know. Bottom line is they need to SAY something. My orginal post was not to ask where or why not it is out but it is a real question and a real need , be it if your a Pro or not. We as customers are on the need to know basis Period. So if some are upset i certainly understand for sure. it is under my crawl space also. Actually i don't really like this whole Imacon scene at all. i wish it was someone else to be honest. Hassy IMHO has taken a major slide in product quality. I am just hearing to many negatives on there H stuff

[jcraig]

Suffice it to say that all six of the people in Technical Support in Solms, The Division Manager Corporate Communications; Gero Furchheim and Spichtig himself is where my communications were directed.

[ho_co]

Originally Posted by jcraig

Suffice it to say that all six of the people in Technical Support in Solms, The Division Manager Corporate Communications; Gero Furchheim and Spichtig himself is where my communications were directed.

Great! I may need to take back my comment that you were not holding up your end! You certainly seem to be addressing the right people. It is my experience as well that Gero seems not to be as communicative as previously, but I don't have experience with the others you mention.

Since you list yourself as a California resident, you might want to contact Leica Allendale. It has been my experience that emails sent to Germany sometimes get re-routed to New Jersey. And from the posts of several people on this forum, NJ seems sometimes more communicative.

Tim is also correct that Leica is ultimately the responsible party. My comment was definitely overboard. If the Imacon relationship isn't working out, we need to recognize that; but it doesn't free Leica of the choice they made.--Remember before the DMR appeared how delighted everyone was that Imacon would be the firmware source? What a difference a year makes!

Clearly, the issue needs addressing.

As used to be said, "It'll be here in one Leitz year."

--HC

[jcraig]

Thank you for the reference to Allendale

I have used Leica Allendale on numerous occasions, not only are most of my lenses and cameras sent to them, when not directly to Solms, but they were called by phone and written to on this firmware matter concerning the update to version 1.3, before I ever even sent out mails to Solms regarding this very matter.

When I asked about the firmware and indicated that some people found the 1.2 to have faults, and wondered (politely I might add) when an update might follow I was shocked and surprised to hear the response: "there are always people who can complain about anything"

To which I politely and diplomatically wrapped up the conversation.

This sounded to me like a serious number of clients were being made wrong... but as I've stated "I politely and diplomatically wrapped up the conversation"

[ho_co]

Originally Posted by jcraig

When I asked about the firmware and indicated that some people found the 1.2 to have faults, and wondered (politely I might add) when an update might follow I was shocked and surprised to hear the response: "there are always people who can complain about anything"

That is sad. I'm sure you remember the name of the person who said that, and that you'll avoid dealing with him/her again.

On a different topic--just curiosity: Why do you send some equipment to Solms rather than Allendale? You might prefer to send me a Private Message if you choose to answer.

Thanks.

--HC

[ptomsu]

I do hope it comes soon!

[jcraig]

Not a precise date for sure, but at least I got an reply from Leica about the 1.3 DMR firmware.

"I am really sorry that you had to wait an answer, I will give a hint to the responsible people.

Unfortunately we can not tell you exactly, when you*can expect an update that fixes the 4GB problem, but*our supplier is working on it. At the moment we do not have a confirmed release date, so that I can not give you a forecast.

Best Regards,

Jesko v. Oeynhausen
Quality Management"

[timbedsted1234]

In other words, Imacon is dragging their feet, frustrating but what can Leica do about it?

Tim

[guy_mancuso]

Tim that is the bottom line. partly the reason for the original thought also. leica i am sure is pulling there hair out on this and at some point have to make some kind off decision how to go forward