M8 on the street, How's it stack up to film Ms?

[fotografz]

Was working in NYC all last week and had a few moments to "street hunt" with the M8. Now that I have the hang of the camera, I was curious how it stacks up to previous street excursions with my film Ms. Plus it's a chance to hone my candid skills for the wedding work that pays the bills.

IMO this is the "go to camera" for color street images. Variable ISO and color temp makes it an obvious choice for me ... although I rarely used color film for this type of shooting, I probably will do so more now.

B&W I'm not so sure about. The M8 B&W files are very nice, but lack the visceral emotional feel of films like Tri-X ... ( I think I just heard a sigh of relief from my MP3 : -)

However, I do think the M8 is getting it closer to B&W film than say my Canon's, even with R glass mounted.

Here are a few B&W street shots from the M8. Mostly ISO 640 using three lenses I took with me: 24/2.8 ASPH, 34/1.4 ASPH and the 90/2 AA ... all with IR filters mounted. Camera has not been sent in for the hardware "upgrade", but has the latest firmware installed.

1) "Lovers and the lone girl" 2) "Manly men" 3) "China Town" 4) Blending in with the Graffitti" 5) 5th AVE [ actually my wife seeking reparations for buying the M8 : -]

[fotografz]

Now, here a a few color street shots, M8, same lenses, but mostly the 35/1.4 ASPH: Each with reasons to be in color IMO except # 3 maybe.

1) "Little Italy in the rain", 2) "China Town" (note the Barber Pole), 3) "Man taking a break",
4) "Saint Patrick's", [Crop of a ISO 1250 file that I had to push in PS] 5) My NYC "touch stone" when ever I vist NYC.

[fotografz]

One last one in Color ... with reason I think ...

[ddp]

Number 5 of the B&W's has a real nice look, with the way the sidewalk glows around the coat. Probably my favorite overall. Looks like your wife has already started....Henri Bendel by the look of it, lol.


BTW - which MP3 do you have? Black paint or chrome?

[msr]

I use the M8 for street photography & think it works really well as it gives me instant feedback on the quality of my captures.
Two of last weeks images can be seen here:
http://www.leica-camera-user.com/peo...s-reality.html and
http://www.leica-camera-user.com/peo...y-waiting.html

[fotografz]

Chrome MP3 with the retro 50/1.4 ASPH ... love it !!!!

[umb]

If the M8 was really so unobtrusive like I've been told here many times, why do you shoot people from behind?

[martinb]

Nice images! JPEG or RAW?
Have you added noise to the images?

[Peter41951]

Originally Posted by umb

If the M8 was really so unobtrusive like I've been told here many times, why do you shoot people from behind?

Some are not shot from behind.....

[chetccox]

I knew they had cell phone jammers but this is ridiculous !!

[guy_mancuso]

For that film look , I really like the M8 at ISO 1250 just adds the grain from the noise that looks very film like to me. Also I have been using Raw developer with channel mixer and i add a touch of warmth to it and i really like that look. for me the M8 is a no brainer for the streeet and a lot of other places too. I have some heavy commercial shoots this week and next and this little baby is going to get a work out bigtime.

[fotografz]

3 shots out of 10 shown are taken from behind Umb ... hardly a habit huh? And 2 of those were done so for the lighting. I liked the warm glow through the plastic window, and the lighting on the 5th Ave shot for the reasons the previous poster mentioned ... besides my wife walks faster than me when she's shopping, LOL. The lovers one I could have shot any way and they would have never noticed, but chose that way because I wanted it with just the girls hand showing and to see the lone girl walking.

[Brett Cambern]

Marc,

Have you tried shooting B&W without the IR filters?

Sean Reid indicated that he preferred the look of the B&W files without the filters.

Regards,
Brett

[Jamie Roberts]

Marc,

First off--those are great shots! The composition and light are really compelling.

Can you articulate what you think some of the actual differences are between the BWs film / prints you like and final output from the M8s? I mean, is it "per channel" differences in file contrast at a "scan level" or is it something different and print-oriented?

In fine BW prints I've seen from film on fibre-based paper, what I see is the print medium really helps the "look" along, so that there's a very gradual gradation of tones through midtones into the highlights but quite a sharp descent into the shadows. Grain helps to moderate the mid-to-high zones even further (and of course, different films and papers have different "color" characteristics).

Just curious. I'm finding the capture itself is so good with the M8 that I can work the file into places on the processing and print side that I just couldn't with any 35 digicam I've had to date...especially with multiple conversions for black and white (almost like the zone system).

But final "finished" processing is still elusive for me. Yes, I can make a wonderful BW from the M8 in terms of absolute tonality, but I haven't nailed the interplay between scan and print to the point where you get, as you say, the impact of 'real' BW.

[fotografz]

Unnoticed right from the front with the 24/2.8 ASPH attached .

But I don't specifically subscribe to the M camera as being more unobtrusive idea. I've taken unnoticed candid street shots with a 1DsMKII and even a Hasselblad. I think it has more to do with your demeanor. But a M is easier to carry : -) ... and a lot of people think it's just a P&S, so that sometimes helps.

All the shots were done in RAW processed in ACR and converted in PS.

[sean_reid]

Hi Marc,

Have you had a chance to play with the new JFI B&W film emulation profiles in C1? If not, you might find it interesting to play with them.

And, yes, in response to a post above, I do prefer the M8 without filters for B&W.

Cheers,

Sean

[atufte]

I actually put this in another thread, but i think it may be relevant to this topic aswell :-)

Love the pictures...!!

Keep shooting guys...

Re: M8 Fall out effect
Quote:
Originally Posted by fotografz
Very funny. My MP3 is going nowhere, especially after just visiting the Leica Gallery in NYC and looking at some real photography.

M8's great, but not that great, especially in B&W. MP3 for real Leica work, M8 for clown work : -)

The M8 is actually THAT great, but our processing equipment/skills is NOT (oh..not mine anyway:-)

We can get similar results with our newly belowed M8's, but it will require the same amount of processing skills today in form of a combination of digital and "traditional" technic if that's the look your after, i recently saw some B&W prints from the M8 enlarged with the DeVere 504 DS an developed wet on traditional chemical Silver Halide prints and baryth prints and all i can say the prints was stunning (they used exposure to simulate the Kodak TMX 100 which to my eyes was spot on...)

http://www.benboardman.com.au/bb/devere/dv504d.shtml

I really love the results i get from both my Epson large format printers (9600 PRO and 9800 PRO) but if the kind of B&W you are looking for have to look exactly like the prints in f.ex Leica Gallery in NYC, this is the way to do it, and i promise you you wont be disapointed....( i belive that to this day i have yet to see any printed B&W images looking better than this, and belive me iv'e seen alot...)

Have fun and stop clowning with your M8 camera's, haha... :-)
__

Best Regards

Alexander Tufte
www.alexandertufte.com

[guy_mancuso]

My filters are glued on. LOL

Honestly I just leave them on for everything , one becuase i just don't know if i want a shot B&W or color at the time and I have been thinking color for so long it is just natural to me but in post i can play around. Depends on what you are doing and your intentions also. i may need to get those JFI's profiles to try also. Need to catch up to some of the profiles that are coming out

[fotografz]

I'll have to try processing some older non filter shots to B&W to see the difference. Thanks for Seans' tip Brett.

Thanks Jamie, I got a few decent shots with the camera in the small amount of time I had between work.

I'm scanning B&W film on an Epson 949 which has a diffusion light source similar to a darkroom enlarger, and the only thing I can think of is that the film has random grain where digital is regimented. There just seems to be a richness from film that is eluding me when printing digital B&W conversions. Close, but not quite ... will keep working on it. Using Crains Museo Silver Rag to print on and it's pretty close in look and feel to analog silver print paper.

Everytime I think I'm getting closer, I see a show like I just did at the Leica Gallery, and well, it's back to the drawing board for digital : -(

Oh, and thanks Alexander. That argues that it's the printing onto analog silver paper that contributes to the "look" huh? I actually looked into that enlarger. I could skip retirement altogether, and get one : -) Ouch !!!

[Jamie Roberts]

I love those JFI profiles from C1 too. Thanks Sean, for that particular tip.

I also love the random grain effects in the Alien Skin plugins--you can actually specify per-channel grain in "exposure" or a random pattern in "blow up". Very, very nice.

And I just had some show samples produced here on the newest Durst / Lambda, which is also a wet silver process output, IIRC, and I have to say the color prints blew me away. I didn't do a lot of black and white in the last batch, but I suspect the printing has a lot to do with how you feel about the image.

I have a 4000 / 7600 here so I don't have the K3 inkset. But I do use ImagePrint to make my own BW prints, and so far that Crane Museo Silver Rag is a great paper. I also really like the Ilford Fine Art Pearl; it has a nice Agfa look. Though not the absolute blacks or warmth in the highlights--at least not with straight ultrachrome inks.

So I'm going to check Alexander's link for printing tests... that enlarger--and the lab processing--looks really cool. It looks like they're doing real sepia toning, for instance; I haven't seen that from any labs around here in years.