50mm f1.4 asph or non

[Bill Wendlandt]

I currently have a non asph 50mm f1.4 that is certainly a superb lens. Would I be better off selling it and going with the current asph model or have my current one upgraded with the 6-bit coding? I had someone tell me they would not bother having this one upgraded. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

[carstenw]

I have never used the early 50 Lux, so please completely disregard my comment.

However, as I understand it, the earlier 50 Lux was one of the best 50s in the world until the new one came out, and the new one mainly improves on the sharpness, not other attributes. In fact, I have the 50 Lux Asph, and I am considering getting the earlier version as a portrait lens with more character...

Unless you feel that the photos taken with your lens are not sharp enough, there is no reason to spend the money on it.

[Theodor Heinrichsohn]

Used the first 50/1.4 which was a bit soft. Second version has better definition at full opening and less coma. At 5.6 it is very good. The 50 asph. is superior in definition and gives you more "translucent" pictures.
All my experience is with Tech Pan / Neofin Doku enlarged with Focomat IIc & Focotar 2 lense, or Kodachrome 25, 64 and Velvia 50.
I'm an amateur, above is my personal (subjective) opinion. Suggest you consult Erwin Puts' book on lenses, or go to his web site and look at his test results.
Teddy H.

[geoffsm]

I'm not sure what one would gain by having a pre-ASPH Lux coded, other than the additional EXIF information that would get written into the files (maximum aperture and estimated shooting aperture with lens detection enabled).

I wouldn't think it's wide enough to benefit from vignetting correction (nor to suffer from cyan drift/red push when using an IR filter), but that's just my impression, others may have better info. I'm not planning to have mine coded, if that's a useful data point.

If the extra EXIF info is worth the price of coding ($125?) then I'd say sure, go for it. If you wish it had Summicron-like sharpness at max. aperture (that any other lens would be jealous to have when stopped down to like f2.8 or f4), then I'd say you should probably trade it in on the aspherical version. I'll never get rid of mine because I love the character it imparts to images, especially when shot wide open.

[lct]

Depends if you need sharp results and you intend to use much the lens at full aperture.
If so the 50/1.4 asph is second to none. What's great with it is that f/1.4 is really a working aperture. I mean, you can open it at f/1.4 and forget about it. You can be sure that the pics will be sharp if you don't focus on the nose to get one eye sharp though
Now you'll never get smooth results as those of the pre-asph with the asph for sure.
The pre-asph offers a rare blend of more than reasonable sharpness and contrast with very smooth bokeh (and virtually no flare at all btw).
Also remember that most digital cameras don't like much high contrast lenses due to their rather low dynamic range. So unless the M8 is as good as the Fuji S3 from this viewpoint, the pre-asph remains a modern option IMHO.

[adan]

Having just tested current and previous versions of both the 50 f/2 and 50 f/1.4 M lenses:

I bought the Summilux f/1.4 ASPH

The reason - bokeh. (LCT - I will try to post samples - the difference really favored the ASPH, IMHO. Believe me, I would not have dropped $2600 if it wasn't clear!)

All three other lenses had distinct "bright ring" effects in blurry backgrounds, where the ASPH produced exceptionally soft and smooth background blur circles. And since I use the 50mm focal length as a "portrait telephoto" on the M8, the blur matters, for my purposes.

In fact, with its combination of sharpness where focused, and softness where not focused, as well as its speed and small size, it ends up being the nicest all-around "short tele" I've experienced in the M system - sort of combining the best aspects of the 75 f/1.4, 90 f/2 pre-APO, and 75 f/2 ASMA all in one package.

If bokeh is not an issue for you, the small amount of improved resolution and contrast by itself (mostly in the outer parts of the picture rather than the center at f/1.4) likely is not worth an upgrade. The cost is - breathtaking (especially when one sees Canon and Nikon SLR 50 f/1.4s floating around for near $100).

Incidentally, the 50 ASPH is STILL not quite as sharp in the corners @ f/1.4 as the Summicrons are @ f/2. Just extremely good, and pulls even or ahead when the same aperture is used.

Adding some comparisons: Last shot B&W with the ASPH alone.

[adan]

Originally Posted by geoffsm

I'm not sure what one would gain by having a pre-ASPH Lux coded...

The M8 uses different firmware settings for coded and uncoded lenses. Having to stop and shift gears in the menus every time one changed focal lengths would be a minor pain. Therefore there is good reason to code ALL one's lenses if one is having ANY of them coded - for faster and consistent shooting without interruptions.

Not required, of course, But I wouldn't want to have to stop and fiddle with the menus just because I was swapping from a 21 to my 50...

[carstenw]

Andi, I don't quite understand that last point. If the lens detection is enabled, the camera lightens the corners slightly, according to focal length, and may subtract some cyan if an Ir filter is used, with firmware 1.10+. However, if the lens is not recognized, it does nothing. Why would you need to fiddle with menus?

[adan]

Carsten: Quoting from the M8 instruction manual -

"When using a lens without 6-bit coding, the recognition function of the camera must always be turned off, to prevent malfunctions."

Page 86, English language section.

[malland]

Contrary to what one of the posters above states, if bokeh is your game the pre-ASPH in the name. I bought a pre-ASPH Summilux 50 just as the ASPH was coming out. One thing I know about it is that it has never produced the type of headache-inducing bokeh of the ASPH as in the first picture in the following thread:

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-...?msg_id=00EFtA

Andthe type of bokeh that you get with the pre-ASPH is shown in the atttached picture.

—Mitch/Bangkok
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10268776@N00/

[lct]

Originally Posted by adan

...bokeh. (LCT - I will try to post samples - the difference really favored the ASPH, IMHO. Believe me, I would not have dropped $2600 if it wasn't clear!)...

Not my experience, Andy, i must say.
Of all my 50mm Leica's (asph and pre-asph 'lux, old and current Elmar, # 11819 'cron) the 50/1.4 asph exhibits i would not say the 'harshest' for sure but honestly the least smooth bokeh.
I compared the pre-asph and asph Summilux here but i don't seem to recall where sorry.
Now i did it with the R-D1 so perhaps there is less difference with the M8 i don't know.
Anyway, see a few samples below.

Summilux 50/1.4 pre-asph & asph, f/2.8, full frame:
http://tinyurl.com/rv7w/EPSN2714-afterweb.jpg
http://tinyurl.com/rv7w/EPSN2718-afterweb.jpg

Summilux 50/1.4 pre-asph & asph, f/2.8, 100% crop:
http://tinyurl.com/rv7w/EPSN2714-after_cropweb02.jpg
http://tinyurl.com/rv7w/EPSN2718-after_cropweb02.jpg

Summilux 50/1.4 pre-asph & asph, f/5.6, 100% crop:
http://tinyurl.com/rv7w/EPSN2716-after_cropweb02.jpg
http://tinyurl.com/rv7w/EPSN2720-after_cropweb02.jpg

[carstenw]

Originally Posted by adan

Carsten: Quoting from the M8 instruction manual -

"When using a lens without 6-bit coding, the recognition function of the camera must always be turned off, to prevent malfunctions."

Page 86, English language section.

(Sorry for writing Andi last time, I was thinking of someone on another forum.)

Argh. I had missed that in my first reading of the manual. That really sucks. I hope that Leica is just being overly cautious here, although one must wonder what happens with a lens with a screw right over the lens-sensor, or with a mount with a cutout. I presume that on most lenses there will be no problem, since the area over the lens-sensor is normally just metal.

I have tested my Summilux-M 50/1.4 against two different 50/1.4 asph. and have seen that the new aspherical lens is sharper at f1.4 but the bokeh is harsher.

I like my non-asph. for portraits!

Attachment 21095


Attachment 21096

[Eoin]

This thread has become very interesting reading for me. While I have neither lens, they will be in the mix when I finally decide between a Noctilux or Summilux Asph or non Asph.

This bokeh issue is my key concern, I can see slightly softer bokeh with the non asph but not by much, as for sharpness, I'll take peoples word that the Asph is sharper as it's very hard to tell with small web jpegs. I don't feel the extra sharpness in the Asph version is necessarily a good thing for my intended use of portraits. I already have come accross this issue with the 75 Summicron APO Asph, gone are the dreamy pastel soft bokeh and slightly less contrasty skin textures I became so used to with the EF 85 L. I'm not taking away anything from the 75 'cron, it's a fantastic little lens, but it's more surgical that I was prepared for.

I know this is not my thread but does someone have a Noctilux v's Summilux (either version) comparison pictures like the ones above they could post.

[msr]

I would like to try the bokeh comparison with my 50mm 1.4 ASPH and a 50mm f2 Summicron in my posession. However I am not sure if the Summicron is the "close focusing" lens that leica says cannot be used with the M8. How do I tell?

Malcolm

[jaapv]

All my lenses but one are coded; obviously I don't jump up and down in the menu when shooting. Up till now I have not noticed any "adverse effects". However, if it were not so, it would be simple to put uncoded in one of the user menus.

[lct]

Originally Posted by smep_reloaded

...I like my non-asph. for portraits...

So do I indeed but a bit more sharpness may be useful sometimes.


(Epson R-D1, Summilux 50 asph, f/1.4, 400 iso)

[lct]

Originally Posted by msr

...I am not sure if the Summicron is the "close focusing" lens that leica says cannot be used with the M8. How do I tell?...

This is the Summicron 'dual range' (DR) or 'close focusing'.

[msr]

LCT,
Thanks for clarifying that for me. I now can do my own tests.
Beautiful portrait by the way.

Malcolm

[mitchell]

Andy,

Were your tests done with an M8?

If so, maybe the M8 handles bokeh differently than film. In Andy's shots the pre-asph shows blue and red on the edge of oof areas, and the asph does not.

Interesting thread.

Best,

Mitchell