Room for One more

[Riley]

Is there room for another digital rangefinder in the Leica stable ?

perhaps a more economic model with four thirds sensor and interchangeable lenses

as a true replacement for D2

[sdai]

Won't happen IMO, Rob ... that's where the D system slots in between the P/S and M/R. Plus ... Leica will be at extremely high stake whenever one of the Japanese competitors comes up with something similar. Canon, Nikon, Minolta (now part of Sony) and Cosina all have well proved expertise and experiences in rangefinder making history.

Just imagine ... what if Canon or Nikon all in a sudden decides to make a M mount digital rangefinder camera? - all they need is follow suit Epson, pull a readily available sensor and electronics ... Leica can't do anything, the patent has expired and if people really wants to see it, I'm sure they're more than willing to remove the AA filter as well - selling for more while costing less.

Forgot to mention, Sony has just signed a deal with Kodak to share their intellectual properties ... now only if Kodak teaches Sony how to make these shift microlens sensors.

[Riley]

on Canon/Nikon
for one thing market circumstances this year will see flat out competition in the dSLR models. With the point and shoots expected to top out in sales, dSLRs is were the money is. Over 89% of the market is P&S by volume, but its down to 70% by income.

With the appearance of strong Pentax and Sony opposition, Canon and Nikon will have their time cut out retaining market share. Sony has replaced Olympus as #3 in Japan.

I think if anyone made this camera, it would be Olympus. Olympus actually need some diversified field as they have a special place in the market overall, they never quite cut it with dSLRs and four thirds to many holds dubious technical worth.

But then, its a long way between models for Leica, and D2 is well missed by many.

[sdai]

There was a interview with Panasonic in Nippon Camera last year ... I forgot which issue it was in. According to the Japanese engieers, the L1 is evolved from the LC1 and they have no intention to build another fixed lens camera in this specific class.

Now, I agree with you, anything could happen with Olympus ... many engineers worked there when E1 was introduced aren't there anymore.

[earleygallery]

...but the D2 isn't a rangefinder camera, its a hybrid. As the cost of DSLR's come down the market for these cameras has reduced which is why we have the new 4/3 camera, panasonics first SLR and Leica's replacement for the D2.

I don't see any point in developing yet another model which will only utilize the same sensor and don't forget the crop factor. It would probably be bigger than the M8 as well.

What I do see a gap in the market for is a high quality compact, with optical viewfinder, using an APS or maybe 4/3 sensor, a fixed lens next best alternative to the M8.

[Riley]

yes D2 was a hybrid
and a useful but large optical finder, with a rangefinder inbuilt is sensible
just a point and shoot with a four thirds sensor not necessarily difficult to organise
leave out many of the fancy menu options found elsewhere and keep it simple

but a fixed lens...
if it were four thirds mount, no further engineering is necessary, and it has access to FT lens range extant. Save for one complication, that of focus. It would have to be fly by wire with FT lenses.

but a fixed lens would be geared to the rangefinder ofcourse, thats a new lens tho

[andit]

"What I do see a gap in the market for is a high quality compact, with optical viewfinder, using an APS or maybe 4/3 sensor, a fixed lens next best alternative to the M8."

Sigma has just announced the DP1 camera. Using the APS-C sized Fovean X3 14mp sensor with a 16.6mm fixed lens (on 35mm this is equivilent to 28mm). This could just be the one to set new lines for compact camera's. Sorry, no optical viewfinder though...

Andreas

[Riley]

Originally Posted by andit

"What I do see a gap in the market for is a high quality compact, with optical viewfinder, using an APS or maybe 4/3 sensor, a fixed lens next best alternative to the M8."

Sigma has just announced the DP1 camera. Using the APS-C sized Fovean X3 14mp sensor with a 16.6mm fixed lens (on 35mm this is equivilent to 28mm). This could just be the one to set new lines for compact camera's. Sorry, no optical viewfinder though...

Andreas

on a fora elsewhere, due out in march i think, after some delays
might be F:4.0 lens too, which seems a tad slow like many Sigma lenses

[johnwolf]

How about the same old D2 body with the same fixed lens, higher ISO capability, 10 Mp, and a RAW buffer? A good mid-level product. Even at $3,000 I'd take that over the D3.

John

[jrc]

I doubt that you'll see a rangefinder from one of the big vendors, because there just isn't enough of a market. If, say, Canon put out a rangefinder, it'd be trying to get into a market much smaller than any other market they inhabit -- the market for high resoluton manual cameras. The real danger to Leica and all the others would be something like a better point & shoot: say, a high end G7 with really good 5x Olympus zoom lens and a high-ISO 10MP sensor, RAW, image stabilization, a twistable LCD, and optioonal fully automatic/fully manual controls. Canon has walked right up that twice, with the G6 and the Pro1, and then didn't carry through. And their lenses might not be good enough.

But sooner or later, somebody will do it, and then Lecia could have a problem. I am, by the way, an M8 and M7 owner.

JC

[jonoslack]

Originally Posted by Riley

Is there room for another digital rangefinder in the Leica stable ?

perhaps a more economic model with four thirds sensor and interchangeable lenses

as a true replacement for D2

Hi Riley
Interesting post - I think the 4/3 sensor has a lot of mileage in it, the new Olympus 400 shows that it can be really small (and the lenses). I suppose a 'rangefinder' using 4/3 lenses would be more like a Contax G2 than a Leica - autofocus and all. But there is another option - don't fancy it myself, but it has been talked about ad-infinitum on the Olympus forum at dPreview
Electronic Viewfinder - Interchangeable lenses; it should be possible to make it very small, and if they used a 4/3 sensor then they could use the existing Olympus lenses as well as some new ones.

Still, I think that there is interesting scope for diversification which only a couple of cameras have really tried for (M8 - E330). We live in interesting times

[dito]

Hi,
I would like to ad an idea:
why don't we get a camera with a very good viewfinder and a foldable little thing behind it with a mirror and magnifying glass at the top, like they are used at the 4x5 field cameras or at the old Rolleiflex 6x6. The software could turn the picture, so that is displayed correctly on the mirror. This would be better than a small rangefinder, I think and it would protect the screen.

Why don't we get it for the D-LUX 3??

Sorry for my English. I hope, there is somebody out there, who will understand, what I mean:-))
Regards
dierk

[stnami]

the new Olympus 400 shows that it can be really small (and the lenses)

.... so does Nikon and soon to be Sigma DP1 with a larger sensor so why go 4:3

[Riley]

Originally Posted by stnami

.... so does Nikon and soon to be Sigma DP1 with a larger sensor so why go 4:3

its just a sensor Imants,

but it encompasses a system that has its own lenses, and then there is the relationship with kodak. That keeps all the bits 'in house' and its contractually tidy. But also the shortish register is dimensionaly handy too, because like some have suggested i agree with, that it should look visually smaller than D2,
4:3 also offers live view, this being a point and shoot a full time LCD will be important. With live view, we are sure that the components can run full time if required.

perhaps the Contax is the right size