Looking forward to the M9

[marknorton]

I'm hoping there's someone in Solms who is collating all the M8 feedback, the brick-bats and boquets, the opinions of what's hot and what's not.

We need a step forwards in sensor design before it makes sense to replace the M8, but if Leica treat the M8 experience - both the development and the aftermath - as a rich learning experience, the M9 could be really good.

[arminw]

Keeping in mind that Leica will solve all the minor problems with the current M8, we'll have a M8 markII soon to look forward to. What could be possibly improved on a M9 except perhaps, a full frame sensor and 16 mp ??

[Riley]

has anyone tried an M to R lens adapter for wides ?

[pascal_meheut]

Originally Posted by arminw

What could be possibly improved on a M9 except perhaps, a full frame sensor and 16 mp ??

No need for IR filter on the lens, better DR, better AWB, better exposure, more silent, SDHC support, more battery life, support for the eq 28mm in the viewfinder, dedicated button to change ISO, exposure compensation and WB, optionnaly more infos in the viewfinder, more infos in the LCD screen on top, instant startup...

[jaapv]

Originally Posted by marknorton

I'm hoping there's someone in Solms who is collating all the M8 feedback, the brick-bats and boquets, the opinions of what's hot and what's not.

We need a step forwards in sensor design before it makes sense to replace the M8, but if Leica treat the M8 experience - both the development and the aftermath - as a rich learning experience, the M9 could be really good.

I don't know about you , Mark, but for now the M8 is clearly more capable than I am. I would not know what to do with a M9. I yet have to explore the limts of my M8.

[egibaud]

LOL as Leica is reknown for rushing themselves into making NEW model one after one I think that you will not have to wait more than 3 or 4 years for the M9

[jaapv]

Actually, Eric I think you may be rather optimistic, first Leica is developing a R10, say two years, then another year to facelift the M8, then another two to three to develop an M9. I would say six to seven years at the very least. Considering that Zeiss, with a strong interest and a good connection into the frontline digital world publicly states that there is not even a hint of a thought about a remote possibility of a 35 mm sensor for a rangefinder, well there would have to be a major breakthrough in sensor technology to get much better than it is. I see Leica's way in developing IR blocking lenses, not a new M body per se.

[matt736]

I would put momey on it Mark,probably the deposit on the M8 that i have'nt got yet,that the M8 is being secretly redesigned into the M9 by all the findings that the current M8 owners are bringing to the attention of Solms.
When AP had the M8 in there news section ,didn't it mention that they were still going to make another M film camera.So there is no way of knowing whats going on in the Leica design departmant R10,M9 ,MPII or what ever is next on the cards.All we do know is that the M8 was not as easy as we all thought and it is a project that is still on going.
But please Leica fix the IR problem without using the filters that nobody seems to stock in this part of europe.This is probably why we have no M8s in the UK what would we do for filters?
Cheers
Matthew.

[MitchoIankov]

I think that ‘live view’ will greatly benefit the system (as on D2) and bring the rangefinder to the 21st century. Not as a replacement of the rangefinder but an addition.

It will eliminate the rangefinder problem of M8 when used with lenses which do not have frame lines in the viewfinder. Framing will be 100% accurate. Focusing will be possible on the live view.

Taking pictures from very low (children from below) or very high (crowd from above when standing on the ground) will involve less guess work.

It will also open the M line of lenses for true zoom lenses (16-18-21 with all the values in between and no need for external viewfinder?).

[Vivek Iyer]

I look forward to a Digital Zeiss Ikon for <3,000 Euros. Price being a key factor.

[jaapv]

Originally Posted by MitchoIankov

I think that ‘live view’ will greatly benefit the system (as on D2) and bring the rangefinder to the 21st century. Not as a replacement of the rangefinder but an addition.

It will eliminate the rangefinder problem of M8 when used with lenses which do not have frame lines in the viewfinder. Framing will be 100% accurate. Focusing will be possible on the live view.

Taking pictures from very low (children from below) or very high (crowd from above when standing on the ground) will involve less guess work.

It will also open the M line of lenses for true zoom lenses (16-18-21 with all the values in between and no need for external viewfinder?).

Why? a DSLR is far better at the job, and a large sensor has HUGE cooling problems in live view. Just buy the R10 when it comes....

[larry]

The M8 was designed to be a true M, not a virtual video game console like so many other digital cameras. I'd hate to see extra buttons, feature, bells and whistles that get in the way of what M cameras do so elegantly. I don't want an external ISO button (the way it's set up is already convenient and incredibly fast to use) or live views or any of the other gimmicks that get in the way of taking photographs. So improvements to the technology such as firmware, yes, but not a transformation into a digital Canon Snappy.

Larry

[jaapv]

Originally Posted by matt736

I would put momey on it Mark,probably the deposit on the M8 that i have'nt got yet,that the M8 is being secretly redesigned into the M9 by all the findings that the current M8 owners are bringing to the attention of Solms.
When AP had the M8 in there news section ,didn't it mention that they were still going to make another M film camera.So there is no way of knowing whats going on in the Leica design departmant R10,M9 ,MPII or what ever is next on the cards.All we do know is that the M8 was not as easy as we all thought and it is a project that is still on going.
But please Leica fix the IR problem without using the filters that nobody seems to stock in this part of europe.This is probably why we have no M8s in the UK what would we do for filters?
Cheers
Matthew.

R10 has been admitted to by Leica, Matthew and IR filters are available over the internet at for instance Foto Huppert

[marknorton]

Originally Posted by pascal_meheut

No need for IR filter on the lens, better DR, better AWB, better exposure, more silent, SDHC support, more battery life, support for the eq 28mm in the viewfinder, dedicated button to change ISO, exposure compensation and WB, optionnaly more infos in the viewfinder, more infos in the LCD screen on top, instant startup...

That's a good list from Pascal. Jaap, I agree the M8 is more capable than I am but the changes I'm looking for are less to do with image quality, more to do with usability such as in Pascal's list. For me, the shutter noise and the gritty shutter release are not great.

I think we'll look back on the M8 as a necessary learning curve but there must be people in Leica who think, "if we could start again, knowing what we know now, this is what we'd do". I've been there with some of the stuff I've done.

[bono0272]

Originally Posted by larry

.... So improvements to the technology such as firmware, yes, but not a transformation into a digital Canon Snappy.

Larry

Agree! Improvement in firmware is critically necessary. Both the DMR and M8 do not perform well in AWB.

[guy_mancuso]

Well you guys are hurting my 2 M8's feelings.

My take on this is pretty much what Jaap said , you will NOT see a M9 for a long time like at least 3 years . Next year hopefully the R10 will be here FF 18mpx in a smaller , lighter package with focus confirmation and will knock our socks off. not sure we will EVER see a FF M9 if it was possible the M8 would have been one. The lenses is just to close to the sensor to technically do it. FF will come in the R package. The M9 by that time will most likely eliminate the use of Filters but that maybe about it and maybe bump the MPX up a little.

[woodyspedden]

Originally Posted by bono0272

Agree! Improvement in firmware is critically necessary. Both the DMR and M8 do not perform well in AWB.

When it comes to issues like AWB I think we have to wait for firmware version 1.1 to see how they have gotten it corrected. It takes new firmware, not a new camera for such items. On the other hand, having one set buttons for ISO, EV compensations etc does take a new camera, as does weather sealing and the like.

I have used the Novoflex R to M adapter successfully with the R 19 elmarit. I am going to do some tests with the R 15 3.5 because this lens would obviate the need for me to buy the Tri-Elmar

Woody Spedden

[magyarman]

I dont thing there after short time gonna be M9 with many differents, just only will be change it sensor what lens doesnt need IR filters. This Leica must to do except they satisfy to sale many lest numbers. Is only specific people thing is ok IR filters, this people who got dip love for name Leica. Rest who thing camera just is work tool doesnt want listen about got to buy it filters for all lenses they got.

[Riley]

surely with what we know now, this obsession with FF must be remembered to give nothing but inferior results. If anything, expect crop sensors even in point and shoots to gain significantly on the supposed advantages of FF, and without the deficit

[jaapv]

Originally Posted by marknorton

That's a good list from Pascal. Jaap, I agree the M8 is more capable than I am but the changes I'm looking for are less to do with image quality, more to do with usability such as in Pascal's list. For me, the shutter noise and the gritty shutter release are not great.

I think we'll look back on the M8 as a necessary learning curve but there must be people in Leica who think, "if we could start again, knowing what we know now, this is what we'd do". I've been there with some of the stuff I've done.

Those are things I would like to see as well, Mark. Especially the shutter release.And add the covering. I should be far more like Vulcanite. Shutter noise does not bother me, it is a lot better than a film M with motor winder imo. I would call that a facelift rather than a new model and that may come well within a reasonable time. It would not, however, make current M8 users trade in their camera's. A weather sealed M8 as a parallel model to the normal M8 does not go beyond the bounds of imagination as well, but it would need dedicated weather-sealed lenses.