Help with M8 Lens choices

[ericperlberg]

Sorry for the length of this question, you may want to skip this post. I usually hate this kind of question when I see it so I ask it in a very hushed and embarrassed tone of voice. But I can't think my way out of this particular problem right now and I keep going in unproductive circles, and was hoping something someone else sees will make me either say... ahhh, good idea or else, ho-hum, its just the way things are... live with it. Maybe when nobody answers...

For the past 2 years I've been doing an art project of walking the entire city of London (no not the tourist centre, but approximately 60 sq miles of territory, thousands of miles of walking) photographing those things which catch my eye (Curiously Incongruous) and posting the images categorised by neighborhood. I carry a Canon 1dsmkII and since its inception, the 24-105L f/4 IS lens (only very rarely I switch to my d-lux3 or another L Canon lens). The 24-105 range works well for me, I'm split about 50/50 working at the 24-35 area and otherwise up at the top end. Rarely need the in between stuff. Before the 24-105 came out I carried only a 35 f1.4 L (canon) and of course, I adjusted my shooting to match my lens. I'm not at all unhappy with the 1dsII and 24-105 but it is a bit heavy (LOL, it defines heavy for 35mm).

So now I'm on the waiting list for an M8 and I've got this discount on a lens possiblity and i'm trying to think out what lenses to carry and buy but I don't want more than 2 lenses in my bag.

I like the 35mm FOV so the new Elmarit 28 2.8 seems logical but I'd also like to carry around maybe a 50 (ie, 65mm) for some added range (shooting across busy streets, canals, etc). I'm very interested in the tri-elmar for its zoom like range in one relatively light lens. But I do like to shoot in low light (and sometimes in London we don't get much other than low light, like now when its f2 and ISO 400 by 15:30). What with the tri-e being f4, I'm a bit nervous that its range is borderline and the one stop speed advantage of the 28 f 2.8 compared to the tri-e's f4 wouldn't be different enough and I'd be duplicating the 28 focal length with little advantage and wouldn't really be getting the full advantage of the leica's low light capability.

On the other hand, the new 28 emarit is wonderfully small and compact and THAT is a big plus for me (and that it doesn't block the view finder, another advantage in my mind). Then I thought, well maybe the 28 2.8 and a 50mm 1.4 and skip the tri-e or even the CV 50mm 1.5. But that seems backward to me. I wish I had the 1.4 on the 28 instead. So I started looking into the CV 28 1.9 and other similar lenses.

So in a nutshell (is it too late for that? anybody still awake?)... I'm looking for to max my range to as similar as possible (roughly speaking) to my current 1dsii set up, without spending more than I have to (but willing to spend what it takes), minimising weight and minimising lens switching and I'd want to have the ability to shoot in low light (the city is rarely "dark") hand held with 35 fov being my preferred main lens.

CV, Leica, Konica, etc, I'm open to any of these lens makers. But reading reviews is making me crazy. When I have a camera in my hands, I can adjust to almost any situation, lens, light level etc and make do with what I have. Experience tells me you shoot what your equipment lets you shoot and your creativity is working within those boundaries. But since I'm a professional (except for the income bit) I'm willing to spend what's necessary IF necessary, plus I have this 30% lens deal which I'd like to use to best long term advantage... Any suggestions?

[wparsonsgisnet]

Eric, first off -- great (as in really great) pix. Your miles clearly paid off.

In terms of the M8, I spent a lot of time looking at reviews at ReidReviews (subscription site) and ended up getting the 24mm f2.8 asph as my wide lens.

I do a lot of dance photography in performance, and have been using the 35 'Lux asph as my main lens on the film M's. The 24 gives me 32-effective and works well. Plus, it is one of Leica's special lenses.

As a second lens, I would recommend the 50, as you expected. I did a walk today and used the 50 for a shot that is posted in the "M8 works with gloves" thread.

I find I am using the 24, the 35, and the 50 a great deal. I also have a 75 'Lux and it's both heavy and hard to focus (in comparison with the other 3 lenses).

I am beginning the process of evaluating 15's. This camera has so much detail that I want to start doing panoramic shots.

You're going to love carrying around the light little M8 compared to the Canon heavyweight. You're also going to like how well RF cameras work in the kind of shooting you do.

Again, great pix!

[tbarker13]

I love the CV28 1.9.
I recently sold my copy, only to buy another one two months later after realizing how much I liked it.
Like you, I am giving very strong consideration to the new 28 elmarit - primarily for its size.

Basically, I have a 21 elmarit (non asph), 28 VC ultron, 35 lux (asph) and 50 lux (non asph). I love each of these lenses, though I am really just getting to know the 21.
However, I really want another lens that is lighter and more compact than any of those four. I want something that would allow me to toss the M8 into my jacket pocket for long walks, hikes, etc.

Depending on the final outcome of this 30 percent offer in the U.S., it will either be the 28 elmarit or a 35 summicron (non-asph).

[wparsonsgisnet]

Originally Posted by tbarker13

Depending on the final outcome of this 30 percent offer in the U.S., it will either be the 28 elmarit or a 35 summicron (non-asph).

Tim, I have owned both the asph and non- versions of the 35 'Lux. There is a great deal of flare in the non- version of the 35 and I recommend you seriously consider the asph version. The asph is several times the lens of the non- in terms of image quality when flare is a concern.

It was the improvement in image quality when moving to the asph 35 that made me buy the 50 asph when it appeared, sight unseen. I had no problems with the non- version of the 50, but was so astonished by the change in quality for the 35 that I bot the new 50.

And, think how much more the 30% discount will be worth on the asph version.

Regards,

[tbarker13]

Thanks, I do have the 35 lux asph.

I'm just looking at either the 35 summicron (non asph) or the new 28 elmarit as lens to use when I want to travel as light and compact as possible.

I don't walk around as much as Eric, but I do want to have a compact option. It's really not so much the weight -- a 100 or so grams isn't going break me -- but I do love the size of the both of these lenses. And both seem to be wonderful performers - though obviously you can't use the 30 percent discount on an older 35 summicron.

[Frank Sprow]

My current M8 favorites are as follows:
28mm Elmarit Asph (very small size, excellent quality images)
50mm Noctilux (beautiful for available light B&W, none the equal in my opinion)
75mm Summicron Asph (nice size, best quality of all the M lenses I've had or tried)
I really don't use wider angle lenses much, so over time have eliminated them from my bag.

All the best, it's really hard to go wrong with this camera or any of the lenses.

[Brett Cambern]

FWIW I have ordered a 28 Cron to go with the M8 as my primary lens. I plan to use the 30% discount to purchase a 75 Cron and will add a CV15 to round out the set.

[marknorton]

Eric, first an extraordinary set of images, huge amount of work, congratulations. A handful are close to home, one of them 50 yards close!

The trouble with the 50mm Summilux is that it falls into the range you say you don't often use - 67mm Eq FOV - which makes me think the 75mm Summicron might be a good choice. At the other end, the 28mm/2.8 would create similar images to 35mm at f4 on the Canon though you might also think of the 28/2; the lens itself is not especially large - just 11mm longer than the 2.8, it's the hood which spoils things. Put a hood on the 28/2.8 and a little of the size advantage goes away.

Not sure the T-E fits the bill. It's a versatile lens, but again, the 35 and 50mm settings take you into the range you say you don't use and even though you can crank up the ISO when the light fades, there's no substitute for shooting wide open to restrict your depth of field, so I think you need to have faster lenses than you are used to to compensate.

The other lens to think about is the 24mm Elmarit - the widest the M8 will handle without a finder, great lens if you want to zone focus.

[primetime1001]

Eric - great images. I too love to wander around looking for interesting situations on the street.

What I have decided to do at the moment, with a limited budget, is to go with a 35 mm Summicron 2.0 as my main lens for everything, street, portraits etc.

I propose to take Sean's advice, get to know one lens very well.

All the best

Hugh

[scott kirkpatrick]

Given what you say about finding your zoom tends to stick at the two extremes, I would think the 75/2 (with the discount) would be a great buy -- not too big, incredibly sharp. It's what I will get from Solms if the American prices come down a bit, or from the grey market if not.
I've shot with an Olympus E-1 (2x factor) for three years now, and I find I spend my time with either the 11-22 zoom or the very nice 50/2 macro lens. I expect the 75/2 to have similar usefulness to the Olympus 50/2 and be even more dramatic.

scott

[tom0511]

So far I think the 28/2.0asph fits perfectly the M8.
Add a 50/1.4 (or a 75) and you have a great 2 lens set.

The 28 has been my most used lens on the M8.
I also have used f2 quit a bit. I think 2.8 is too slow for a standard M-lens.

If I was on a tight budget I would probably rather get the CV 28/1.9 instead of the 28/2.8 Leica.
If the price is ok for you, the 28/2.0 is great.

[truando]

I am very impressed with your work! Great site!

You should consider the 90mm Elmarit, too. Very lightweight and of excellent quality, with built in hood. I saw quite a few photos on your site that could have been taken with that lens.

My suggestion:

28mm 2,8
50mm 1,4 (or 1,0 - unique but heavy)
90mm 2,8

You'll get used to the crop factor in no time, and I think this setup fits your stye of shooting.

[ericperlberg]

Bill, Mark, Hugh and Christian, I appreciate your comments about my images. Many thanks!

All of these comments have been quite useful! I haven't made my mind up yet but I won't be getting the 28-35-50 Tri-E. I'm still battling the relative advantages of the 28 chron v Elmarit (they each have advantages...)

I do like the sound of a 75 or 90 (90/115) as a second lens. The 75 f/2 sounds a bit heavy though with a 28 f/2 the two weigh about what my current 24-105 weighs.

Christian, how hard is accuate focusing with the 90? I would imagine the frame lines for the 90 are not very big? Do you wind up using the 1.25 magnifier? And did you mean the 2.8 or the f4 which seems remarkably compact and light weight!

More comments are still welcome, esp about CV lenses which may be an inexpensive way of testing out focal lengths.

Thanks all...

[tom0511]

Originally Posted by ericperlberg

Bill, Mark, Hugh and Christian, I appreciate your comments about my images. Many thanks!

All of these comments have been quite useful! I haven't made my mind up yet but I won't be getting the 28-35-50 Tri-E. I'm still battling the relative advantages of the 28 chron v Elmarit (they each have advantages...)

I do like the sound of a 75 or 90 (90/115) as a second lens. The 75 f/2 sounds a bit heavy though with a 28 f/2 the two weigh about what my current 24-105 weighs.

Christian, how hard is accuate focusing with the 90? I would imagine the frame lines for the 90 are not very big? Do you wind up using the 1.25 magnifier? And did you mean the 2.8 or the f4 which seems remarkably compact and light weight!

More comments are still welcome, esp about CV lenses which may be an inexpensive way of testing out focal lengths.

Thanks all...

Eric,
I have used M for long time but just recently got myselg the 1.25 magn.
Its on my M8 very most of the time.

I find that I can focus pretty accurate all the fast lenses even wide open.
The problem is that my 50/1.4 and 1.0 are not calibrated correctly.
How do I know? Because even wide open I get consistent results:
The 50/1.0 front focused, the 50/1.4 backfocused

The 90/2.8 and 75/1.4 I get very good focus wide open, they are fine.

So IMO if your lens is calibrated good, you can focus these lenses wide open.

cheers tom

[truando]

Originally Posted by ericperlberg

Christian, how hard is accuate focusing with the 90? I would imagine the frame lines for the 90 are not very big? Do you wind up using the 1.25 magnifier? And did you mean the 2.8 or the f4 which seems remarkably compact and light weight!

I meant the 2.8 Elmarit-M.

No problem focussing whatsoever with the Elmarit. I think that once you have the focussing thing straight, it really doesn't matter what lens you use. You just need a bit of practise, and then it becomes second nature. Only exception is the noctilux at 1m, that's harder... But we're speaking about 1cm of DOF here.

I do have the magnifier, but I don't think it is necessary. More important IMO is a really clean viewfinder without smudge, and the right dioptry correcting lens even if you don't wear glasses. check out your eyesight, and order the right correcting lens.

From what I saw in your work you will be shooting from a distance with the 90mm anyway, so DOF won't be that narrow.

I am sure you will love the elmarit, it's an astonishing lens, and the feel is amazing. Also it is really well balanced on the M. What can I say, it feels just RIGHT. It was an instant love affair for me, and that was 10 years ago. BTW the price is great, too, and you find them on eBay.

Why don't you just rent one for a couple of days?

Hope that helped!

Cheers

Christian

[guy_mancuso]

Okay so i would wear 200 readers for reading and computer work , but my farsight is pretty good. I am still trying to figure whatdiopter would be best and I DO use the magnifer almost always even with a 21mm

[jonoslack]

Hi Eric
Lovely photos.
There is no answer!
I have the 28 1.9 ultron and the tri-elmar.
In theory I probably prefer the Ultron, but when walking around the tri-elmar almost always gets the shots - it's so convenient, you don't miss the shots changing lenses, and in desperation you can hand hold at stupid shutter speeds.

I was out today in the storm, and the camera was half protected by my coat - changing lenses would have been inconceivable, but there were still shots to be taken.

I'm teetering on the brink of using my 30% for the wide tri-elmar . . . . .or should I get the 75mm lux!

Happy new year, and good luck with whatever you decide

[ericperlberg]

Originally Posted by jonoslack

Hi Eric
...
There is no answer!

You're right, I know...

Originally Posted by jonoslack

I was out today in the storm, and the camera was half protected by my coat - changing lenses would have been inconceivable, but there were still shots to be taken.

Me too (in the storm) with the D-lux 3.
I appreciate the feedback... esp. the diopter point I wouldn't have thought about that!


Best wishes to everyone for a safe holiday...