M8 And Dirty Sensors

[fotografr]

A lot of M8 users have experienced serious dirty sensor issues, so I thought it might be helpful to have a thread on the subject. One cause is the proximity of the sensor to the lens back. With a digital SLR, there is a significant chamber space (mirror housing) that seperates the lens from the sensor when the shutter opens. On the M8, however, the back element is very close to the sensor when the curtain opens. Since the sensor has a positive charge when the camera is on, any dust on the back of the lens will be attracted to the sensor surface the instant the shutter opens. It is imperative to keep the back ends of lenses clean when using them on the M8.

Everyone has their own favorite method for getting the dirt off and my personal choice is the brushes made by Visible Dust. Their products are safe and effective (and no, I don't work for them).

Sorry if this subject has been discussed repeatedly in other threads, but I've noticed a serious dirty sensor problem with a lot of M8 photos posted and thought we could all benefit from each other's experiences with preventing it and removing it when it does occur. The alternative is a lot of wasted time with the clone tool or the healing brush.

[Walker]

Good idea!

Here is a reproduction of a post I did earlier on this topic. I have not found out how to reproduce just the link, so here it goes:


1. There are at least three types of dirt: a. Loose dry dust; b. Sticky dry dust; c. Smears of various kinds. Those types demand different cleaning techniques.
2. The best way to discover dust on the sensor is pointing camera towards a bright surface (the sky for instance), with a small aperture opening.
3. Use high quality claning equipment. I chose VisibleDust (www.visibledust.com), which is "reassuringly expensive" (as a friend formulated it).
4. Be extremely cautious and take your time - you probably will have to give it several attempts to get rid of all.
5. I started with the VisibleDust Sensor Brush. This brush is rotated on a motor attached before (!) operation. This is to load it with static el. + getting rid of dust particles. When this is finished, the brush is drawn one time over the sensor, mopping up the dust in the process. If you want to repeat, then the brush must first be rotated before applied again. This is extremely important, and I wasted some time learning this lesson. If you don't follow this procedure, you may actually be leaving more dust on the sensor instead of removing it (I did).
6. Smears and sticky dust particles demand other techniques. I ended up with VisibleDust Sensor Clean, which is a fluid developed for this kind of thing. This comes with cotton swabs (a kind of q-tips) which I did not like at all. Instead, I bought some VisibleDust Sensor Swabs. These are rectangular, and cover the whole sensor in one "draw." 2-4 drops of the Sensor Clean is applied, then the Swab is drawn one time (never more than once) over the sensor. Again, if you want to repeat, then the swab must be turned over and get some more Clean.
7. Before point 6. above, it is best to use the Sensor Brush in order to remove any loose dust.
8. Point 7. may have to be repeated in order to get rid of everything. In all, I must have spent some 5-6 short evenings before I was satisfied with the result. In the end I almost gave up and decided to send the whole thing in for service. After that, and one more attempt, everything seems fine. I now believe my M8 to be alive and sensitive to my intentions!
9. Never ever breath on the sensor. Never use pressured air for blowing on it. Never use cloth or such things on the sensor: you will probably get away with it, but it is not necessary and there is a risk.

I think that is all. After some attempts you will get the hang of it, and I imagine more experienced people at this forum perform this routine (or something like it) quite automatically when called for.

Best regards

Willy

[lsm]

Yes, and if you screw up on any of these techniques, you have a voided warranty and an unpredictable bill that could run thousands of dollars, if a repair/replacement is possible at all.

That's the deal with Nikon and Canon, and it's probably the deal with Leica. No one knows until user experiences accumulate.

For every 20 folks who can do this just fine, one will blow it and wreck his camera.

But you're not dealing with a <$1,000 camera body. It's a whole different ball game.

[chrism]

Well you can hardly leave the dust there. I've used the Arctic Butterfly twice on mine and it worked well.

Chris

[george]

Don't kid yourself. This camera - that I like a lot - gets quite a bit of dust. But the Arctic Butterfly works well for me too.

[tashley]

I've had my M8 for two months and have yet to clean the sensor. I change lenses moderately often, but am always careful when I do so. I have an Arctic Butterfly by Visible Dust (I travel a lot and you can't take sensor fluid on planes these days) which I bought for my Canon 5D. I had to use it once or twice a month on the Canon, on which I changed lenses less frequently since I used it less and mainly with just two zooms.

So in my experience (also includes a Kodak Pro SLR/n which was a dust pig) the Leica fares pretty well...

Tim

[mike prevette]

I've had mine since November, and have only had to clean the sensor once. I also change lenses a lot. In my opinion its way less susceptible to dust than my Canons were.

_mike

[jaapv]

Same here. It started to be necessary to do a swab job for new-shutter grease spots after about 600 shots, no dust as I use the blower a lot but as the camera was to be collected by Leica anyway, I decided to give it a pass.

[erl]

Originally Posted by lsm

For every 20 folks who can do this just fine, one will blow it and wreck his camera.

Just wondering where this 'statistic' comes from

[jaapv]

Actually, has anybody ever heard of somebody wrecking his sensor? Not smearing it to the extent that it needed a professional clean -I've been known to do that myself in my wilder years - but really wrecking it to the extent of having to have it replaced?

[jrc]

Originally Posted by lsm

Yes, and if you screw up on any of these techniques, you have a voided warranty and an unpredictable bill that could run thousands of dollars, if a repair/replacement is possible at all.

That's the deal with Nikon and Canon, and it's probably the deal with Leica. No one knows until user experiences accumulate.

For every 20 folks who can do this just fine, one will blow it and wreck his camera.

But you're not dealing with a <$1,000 camera body. It's a whole different ball game.

Not entirely true. Both Nikon D2x (manual p. 252) and Leica (Leica manual p. 128) give instructions for cleaning the sensor, although Nikon says that the sensor (actually, the low-pass filter) shouldn't be touched. This is like saying that only authorized Mercedes Benz dealers should wash your windshield...

Right from the earliest days, people were cleaning the Nikon digitals brush with sensor swabs, and after after that, with visible dust sensor brushes. If you didn't clean the sensor yourself, you'd either be shooting most of the time with a dirty sensor, or your camera would be in repair about 70% of the time. Since people started cleaning sensors on their own, I would estimate that several million sensors have been cleaned several tens of millions of times, and I've not yet seen any mentioned on the 'net as having been damaged.

You *do* have to be careful, and if you try to scrape off a bit of dust with a fingernail file, then you may have a problem. Neither Leica nor Nikon specifically say that self-cleaning will invalidate any warranty; Leica specifically says it will not accept any liability for damage done while cleaning. This is nothing new -- they also don't accept liabiity with damage done to your lens glass while cleaning, either. So if you damage your sensor, they will charge you to fix it; that's not the same as having the warranty canceled -- the camera remains under warranty (for eveything else) but they won't fix the damage (that you did) for free.

JC

[jlancasterd]

Originally Posted by jaapv

Actually, has anybody ever heard of somebody wrecking his sensor? Not smearing it to the extent that it needed a professional clean -I've been known to do that myself in my wilder years - but really wrecking it to the extent of having to have it replaced?

About 2 years ago, when the DMR was new, I went to a demonstration at Cambrian Photography in North Wales and, after trying the demo camera, asked about cleaning the sensor. The demonstrator promptly opened the back, wiped the sensor with his handkerchief (I assume it was a clean one!) and closed the back up again before handing the unit on to the next participant. I think this indicates that sensor coatings are a great deal more robust than we sometimes fear.

[mjh]

Originally Posted by jlancasterd

About 2 years ago, when the DMR was new, I went to a demonstration at Cambrian Photography in North Wales and, after trying the demo camera, asked about cleaning the sensor. The demonstrator promptly opened the back, wiped the sensor with his handkerchief (I assume it was a clean one!) and closed the back up again before handing the unit on to the next participant. I think this indicates that sensor coatings are a great deal more robust than we sometimes fear.

Yes, I've seen Leica people doing that, too. Leica’s coating on the sensor is designed to take some abuse; this holds for both the DMR and the M8.

[rob_x2004]

I think in a few years time sensor cleaning threads will seem as anal as lens cleaning threads. People are probably just a bit too skitty about it, the sensor being this murky black magic spectre hidden behind the curtain. As long as you are sensible just read the instructions and run with what works for you, and what you are comfortable with, then;
1.jpg

[Riley]

Originally Posted by jlancasterd

The demonstrator promptly opened the back, wiped the sensor with his handkerchief (I assume it was a clean one!) and closed the back up again before handing the unit on to the next participant. I think this indicates that sensor coatings are a great deal more robust than we sometimes fear.

more likely that is not a recommended cleaning method dont you think

[ho_co]

Originally Posted by jlancasterd

The demonstrator promptly opened the back, wiped the sensor with his handkerchief (I assume it was a clean one!) and closed the back up again before handing the unit on to the next participant.

John--
Although that holds for the DMR, we can't assume the same for the M8 sensor. Because the DMR can be attached and removed, the sensor has to be able to take more abuse. Indeed, Leica makes quite a point of this.

However, according to the specifications for the coverplate of the KAF-10010 sensor (which I think is the one used in the DMR):
1) it uses a different glass (Schott D-263) from that used in the M8's KAF-10500 (Kyocera B-7);
2) it has a different thickness (0.76 mm) from that used in the KAF-10500 (0.5 mm);
3) it has an AR coat on the front surface and IR-cut coat on the rear surface, compared with AR coats front and rear in the KAF-10500;
4) it allows "dust, scratch and dig: 10 microns max," compared with the KAF-10500's "scratch and dig: 20 micron max";
AND of interest here:
5) it offers "coating abrasion resistance to meet ISO 9211-4," while no abrasion standard is listed for the KAF-10500.



KAF-10010 specs at: http://www.kodak.com/ezpres/business...10LongSpec.pdf
KAF-10500 specs at: http://www.kodak.com/ezpres/business...00LongSpec.pdf