Leica fourth thirds Lumix DMC L1

[flora]

Does anyone know if Lumix DMC L1 has finally come out yet? I saw a couple of price posting. Any hands on experience to share? Is this a camera serious enough to consider? Is Leica coming out with its own body for the fourth thirds system?

[adan]

Not yet, but close...dpreview has handled one and posted a preview:

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/panasonicdmcl1/

Not serious for me because I prefer the 3:2 image shape of classic 35mm images and have lenses waiting to go on the digital Leica M8 - but if you are into 4/3rds, it will likely be a terrific camera. Unique selling points vis a vis Olympus are the Leica lenses and analog controls (shutter dial, aperture ring) - and image-stabilization. Likely some fast (f/1.4-f/2) compact single focal length lenses eventually compared to Olympus's stable of fast (but biggish) zooms.

Leica has officially committed to joining the 4/3rds consortium, but has released no information on what it will sell or produce itself. This will likely be announced at PhotoKina in late Sept. this year. A Leica version of the L1 is highly probable, but still mythical.

[marknorton]

I'm sorry but I find it difficult to get too excited about this camera. The L1 has been a long time coming, previewed at PMA - not that anyone could try one out - and only now coming on the market at a price level which puts it right up against the competition from Nikon and Canon.

In principle, the 4/3 concept is a good idea, an opportunity for smaller manufacturers to make their contribution but not to have to do it all and also to share components to keep costs down.

The good news is that its predecessor, the LC1/Digilux 2 provided far better quality images than we expected and that's down to the Leica lens. Same magic ingredient here, even though the L1's effort to be both a real viewfinder/live preview camera seems an unhappy mix. The thing is also huge, the lens is huge, the body is huge. Look at the tiny sensor lurking inside the lens throat and you are bound to ask, why?

Leica talk about their third system camera and have signed up to 4/3. The L1 is likely to be their first camera in the new system and I expect to see the L1 rebadged as a Leica and two new P&S cameras to fit in between the C-Lux 1 and the new system camera. That gives them 6 digital cameras, providing of course they don't go out of production before the world has hardly registered they exist.

[geoff]

Originally Posted by flora

Does anyone know if Lumix DMC L1 has finally come out yet?

The Panasonic Lumix DMC-L1 is scheduled to be released on July 22 for Japan and sometime in September for the USA.

[dhsimmonds]

Jonathan Eastland has written a review in current issue of F2photo mag. which can be read at www.f2photo.co.uk/ but you may need to register to read it. He is attracted to the 4/3rds format but criticises the performance of the optical viewfinder and indicates that the Liveview alternative is insufficient to permit accurate manual focusing. He also didn't like the plastic barrel of the lens under the substantial rubber grips. The build quality of the lensdoes not he says compare with the metal barrels used on the Olympus E type lenses.

Jonathan's description sounds very much like the build quality of the Panasonic FZ20 & 30 models....................perfectly adequate but not necessarily satisfying to use!

As Jonathan Eastland is a long time Leica M user, we must draw our own opinions from this not very encouraging review.

[ptomsu]

It did not come out yet, expected for Photokina 2006 (September)

There should be a Leica version coming as well, but I am not sure for September.

[nemeng]

Originally Posted by dhsimmonds

Jonathan Eastland has written a review in current issue of F2photo mag. which can be read at www.f2photo.co.uk/ but you may need to register to read it.

Correction, you MUST register to read it. Furthermore, when you register you must give a valid email address, as the reg. info is sent to that email account.

Just to read an article?... No thanks.

[elfrazee]

Originally Posted by dhsimmonds

Jonathan Eastland has written a review in current issue of F2photo mag. which can be read at www.f2photo.co.uk/ but you may need to register to read it. He is attracted to the 4/3rds format but criticises the performance of the optical viewfinder and indicates that the Liveview alternative is insufficient to permit accurate manual focusing. He also didn't like the plastic barrel of the lens under the substantial rubber grips. The build quality of the lensdoes not he says compare with the metal barrels used on the Olympus E type lenses.

Jonathan's description sounds very much like the build quality of the Panasonic FZ20 & 30 models....................perfectly adequate but not necessarily satisfying to use!

As Jonathan Eastland is a long time Leica M user, we must draw our own opinions from this not very encouraging review.

I have found that there is very little accuracy in the reviews of any Lumix camera, and therefore, one should use one's own judgement on their worthiness. For example, I own an FZ30 and can attest that it has a metal lens barrel, not a plastic one, and it would be most surprising if the L1 had a plastic lens barrel. Especially since, a plastic lens barrel goes against Leica's philosophy on lens construction. By-the-way, the FZ30 is most satisfying to use and is more than adequate for any real photo situation. I think reviewers of it are stuck with their SLR mentality and can't honestly evaluate a camera that is part of the next evolution of the technology.

[MJLogan]

Originally Posted by flora

Does anyone know if Lumix DMC L1 has finally come out yet? I saw a couple of price posting. Any hands on experience to share? Is this a camera serious enough to consider? Is Leica coming out with its own body for the fourth thirds system?

I have one on order from Amazon at a price of $1,999.95. The item description says it will be released on August 31, but the order has an estimated delivery date of Aug. 3-17. I'll know after Aug. 3 if that shipping date is imaginary. As a fan of the Digilux-2 and the original D-LUX (my beloved point-and-shoot companion), I'm eager to try the DMC-L1. Like others here, I expect a Leica-branded body to appear later this year. Based on the lack of real difference between the Leica and Panasonic versions of the Digilux-2, I'm disinclined to wait, and to pay the inevitable premium.

[TimF]

Originally Posted by dhsimmonds

Jonathan Eastland has written a review in current issue of F2photo mag. which can be read at www.f2photo.co.uk/ but you may need to register to read it. He is attracted to the 4/3rds format but criticises the performance of the optical viewfinder and indicates that the Liveview alternative is insufficient to permit accurate manual focusing. He also didn't like the plastic barrel of the lens under the substantial rubber grips. The build quality of the lensdoes not he says compare with the metal barrels used on the Olympus E type lenses.

Jonathan's description sounds very much like the build quality of the Panasonic FZ20 & 30 models....................perfectly adequate but not necessarily satisfying to use!

As Jonathan Eastland is a long time Leica M user, we must draw our own opinions from this not very encouraging review.

This is all true, but as Eastland himself stresses, the camera was a prototype sample, so there is still time for things to improve. It might well be that the lens barrel on production samples will not be plastic - we'll just have to wait and see how things pan out.

Having just bought a Canon 5D, I'm not in the market for the L1, but damning something based on mere prototypes is short-sighted surely. If the full production version has similar defects to those noted by Eastland and DPR, then's the time to trash it.

[dhsimmonds]

Good point about the Eastland test being conducted with just a prototype. We shall just have to wait and see. I have used an FZ10 for over a year and an FZ20 for rather longer and whilst both cameras are capable of producing some superb images, neither compare with the pleasure or quality I get from using my LC1. I do hope that the L1 if it is to be the LC1 successor lives up to it.

[ptomsu]

L1 will not be available before autumn 06. Leica version if any much later - for both I am afraid it is almost too late.

[stnami]

I agree with Peter things are a bit late for Leica.
Panasonic will do well with the L1 as it will be popular in Japan and other markets are a bonus. Cameras to them are about helping to market other products as long as they turn a profit they will make them

[kobold]

My LC1 still produces excellent images, and I imagine it will for a while longer. The EVF and slow and sometimes imprecise autofocus occasionally irritate—but all that's forgotten once I open the images in CS2.

Has anyone used the Sony R1—and been able to compare those images to the LC1?

I have an L1 on order, but feel that this section of the market is heating up, and only likely to get hotter. Cheers, KL

[adan]

Originally Posted by kobold

Has anyone used the Sony R1—and been able to compare those images to the LC1?

I have the R-1 and D2. The Leica lens is so good that the R-1 really has only a small edge in sharpness. But the extra 5 million, LARGER, pixels give the R-1 a sizable advantage in noise and dynamic range - more open shadows with cleaner color for the same highlight exposure.

ISO 400 with the Sony is at least as good as ISO 100 with the D2/LC-1. A 10 x 13" print from the D2 @ ISO 100 shows a hint of graininess, whereas a 10 x 15" from the R-1 @ ISO 160 is absolutely smooth.

That's shooting RAW - in jpeg the Sony loses a lot of its advantages over the Leicasonic due to sloppier sharpening routines. Plasticized textures and video-like oversharpened highlights. You don't realize how GOOD the LC1/D2 jpegs are until you've seen how bad most other cameras do with jpeg.

That covers the image differences. There are obvious handling differences that favor the LC-1 - size, weight, shape, wider apertures, analog controls. There are other differences where I prefer the R-1 - focal length range, 3:2 image format.

[kobold]

Andy,

Thanks—it just goes to demonstrate once again that the double-the-pixels route does not double image quality. Like you, I have been simply astounded by the files out of the LC-1 (and frequently 'underwhelmed' by the files out of cameras that shouold be much better).

I really like the 24 end of that Zeiss zoom, though; on the LC-1, I find that I am at either end of the zoom 90% of the time. Cheers, Kit

[kobold]

Andy, a followup—would you consider doing a comparison of the two camera—your review of the D2 is still one of the best ever done, IMHO.

A lot of work, though, of course. Maybe a brief one? Cheers, KL

[harjtt]

Hi Andy

I noticed that the DMC L1 website had a recent update that states the camera is the first that allows both 16:9 and 3:2 shooting in addition to 4:3 when used in Live Mode. There's no indication on the site on how they implement the other two modes.

http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/l...nctions03.html

Cheers

HarjTT

[supperman]

The 3:2 and 16:9 formats will almost definitely be cropped versions of the 4:3 picture, just like other digicams.

As for the Leica 4/3" camera, I don't think it will or can be a straight rebadge of the L1, for the simple fact that Leica does not have a partnership with Olympus, only Panasonic, and the L1 is an amalgamation of Olympus and Panasonic technology. A Leica version of the L1 means that they'll have to license all of the other components that went into the L1. Leica already said that they will come up with their own 4/3" camera, and I'm sure that it will be unique from the L1.

However, I do hope that they change their mind and I maintain my stance that it is crazy for Leica to divert precious R&D money to making an uncompetitive 4/3" SLR body. Once they are done with the Digital M, they need to think about the digital R10, or cheaper entry level digital SLRs that take R lenses. Off my soapbox.

[Bob Ross]

Originally Posted by supperman

The 3:2 and 16:9 formats will almost definitely be cropped versions of the 4:3 picture, just like other digicams.

As for the Leica 4/3" camera, I don't think it will or can be a straight rebadge of the L1, for the simple fact that Leica does not have a partnership with Olympus, only Panasonic, and the L1 is an amalgamation of Olympus and Panasonic technology. A Leica version of the L1 means that they'll have to license all of the other components that went into the L1. Leica already said that they will come up with their own 4/3" camera, and I'm sure that it will be unique from the L1.

However, I do hope that they change their mind and I maintain my stance that it is crazy for Leica to divert precious R&D money to making an uncompetitive 4/3" SLR body. Once they are done with the Digital M, they need to think about the digital R10, or cheaper entry level digital SLRs that take R lenses. Off my soapbox.

Andy, some of the Oly technology access might have come along with Leica joining the 4/3rds group. Getting a famous photography name into the group is probably well worth a porro mirror box.... .....especially when Leica's name actually appears on products.
Since you are off your R10 soapbox, why don't you put some wheels on it....
Bob