Leica R10: Any ideas?

[craigrmurray]

Having ridden the M8 roller-coaster ride for the last three weeks along with the rest of you, I have neglected my trusty R9/DMR.

Has anyone heard about, seen anything, have any speculation as to Leica's next move in the reflex camera department? I know a few of you on the forum have closer ties to Leica than I do. I'll venture a few guesses here:

1. R10 will be integrated -- not separate components like DMR plus body.
2. R10 will use Kodak sensor -- 10-12 Mpixel.
3. Full frame? I doubt it. Is this even possible with present lens mount?
4. Will have bigger LCD screen.
5. Leica will design super-wide angle zoom -- 15-19mm or 15-21mm?
6. Faster capture/bigger buffer.

I'm also guessing camera is at least 18 months away for an announcement at the earliest, probably not until next Photokina.

Any thoughts out there? I know the M8 debacle is pervasive, but let's not forget it's big brother that's supporting the digital family (at the moment, anyway).

[pascal_meheut]

I have no info and the Leica rep refused to talk about it except to say they are working on something

1) R10 will be integrated. Seems so, and I think Leica said it in the past but not sure
2) I'm not sure sensor is determined yet
3) FF why not ? Leica lenses work well on Canon FF bodies. Problem is price & quality in the corners
4) Sure
5) Only if not FF
6) sure and not very hard, the M8 is showing the way.

Last time I heard about a date, it was Kina 2008 indeed.

[albertwang]

Don't make it $5K

[john_f]

Craig,

As Pascal mentioned, Leica has mentioned it is aiming for the next Photokina (Sept 23, '08). Last time I spoke to a Leica rep (last Oct) about the future Leica D-SLR, I was told that Leica had already started work on the camera.

The other thing I can tell you is that Leica Camera is very much interested in whatever suggestions, comments, etc.. that we may have and post in this forum. Trust me on this, they really do read all our stuff !!

So, if you have any suggestions as to what YOU would like (or not like) to see in a future Leica D-SLR (let's call it the "R10"...), feel free to contribute your two cents.

[Ignatz_Mouse]

Ok. My contributions then:

1. 16 Mpx Full Frame.
2. Focus confirmation, NO AF.
3. Better high ISO performance (ISO 50 and 3200 included).
4. Better battery duration.
5. Bigger and brighter LCD screen (2.5 inches, please).

Thanks.

[craigrmurray]

Originally Posted by pascal_meheut

I have no info and the Leica rep refused to talk about it except to say they are working on something

1) R10 will be integrated. Seems so, and I think Leica said it in the past but not sure
2) I'm not sure sensor is determined yet
3) FF why not ? Leica lenses work well on Canon FF bodies. Problem is price & quality in the corners
4) Sure
5) Only if not FF
6) sure and not very hard, the M8 is showing the way.

Last time I heard about a date, it was Kina 2008 indeed.

Thanks, Pascal. On the FF issue, I was only guessing that the big sensor might be prohibitively expensive (although I suppose that's oxymoronic when referring to anything Leica), since Canon makes their own sensors. I don't know what Imacon/Kodak makes larger than the present DMR one.

[craigrmurray]

Originally Posted by albertwang

Don't make it $5K

Somehow, I'll bet the R10 will be at least that ($5K) -- still two years away.

[craigrmurray]

Originally Posted by john_f

Craig,
The other thing I can tell you is that Leica Camera is very much interested in whatever suggestions, comments, etc.. that we may have and post in this forum. Trust me on this, they really do read all our stuff !!

John: I certainly hope this is true -- I think their future depends on it.

So, if you have any suggestions as to what YOU would like (or not like) to see in a future Leica D-SLR (let's call it the "R10"...), feel free to contribute your two cents.

I'm glad you said that. Now, I'm at a loss to think of those suggestions temporarily, other than making the thing FF. I'll be giving this some serious thought.

[john_f]

Speaking of which, here are my own two cents of what I would like.

- A fully integrated digital camera (i.e. not a digital back) with built-in motor drive (at least 5 fps)
- A full-frame sensor (preferably CCD)
- NO anti-alias filter (as in DMR and M8)
- Built-in IR/UV sensor filtering of SUFFICIENT strenght please !!
- A modular approach to digital signal processing (amplifiers, imaging engine, etc..)
- Environmental seals to protect against water and dust (including lens mount)
- Ultrasonic technology to clean sensor on power-up (see Panasonic for help)
- A more advanced, longer duration Li-Ion battery (see Toshiba's nanotechology Li-Ion battery: Toshiba launches fast-charging lithium ion battery: Digital Photography Review)
- A bigger, brighter, higher contrast HP viewfinder with 0,9x magn and 100% coverage
- A bigger 3 inch screen, preferably touch screen (keep in mind that a lot of new technology will be introduced until Sep 2008 - 3inch screens might become the norm by 2008)
- Support for two (2) SDHC cards, with possibility to save DNG and/or JPEG on a mix of the cards (e.g. save both DNG and JPEG on first card then go to second, or save DNG on first card and JPEG on second, etc... not exactly rocket science ..)
- Built-in support for both latest versions of USB (2.0 High-Speed or higher) and FireWire (800 or higher)
- Built-in support for wireless remote (remote shutter triggering)
- Built-in support for wireless communication, either Wi-Fi or EDO (will depend on market trends in 2008)
- Built-in support for basic GPS features (e.g. latitude, longitude, altitude - and compass - again, might become a standard feature by 2008)
- An improved, more modern "matrix" or multi-pattern metering system
- The ability to use such metering system for both natural (ambiant) and artificial (flash) lighting

And finally, something controversial:
Provided that the R's viewfinder's brilliance and contrast would be maintained or even improved, and that you could still use all current manual focus Leica R lenses, I would you like to see modern AF capability in a future R10 (and the ability to turn the whole thing off if I want to)

Oh yes, almost forgot. Bundled with a 4GB SDHC card, price it for under US $5500 !

What's your suggestion ?

Best regards,
John F.

[craigrmurray]

Originally Posted by Ignatz_Mouse

Ok. My contributions then:

1. 16 Mpx Full Frame.
2. Focus confirmation, NO AF.
3. Better high ISO performance (ISO 50 and 3200 included).
4. Better battery duration.
5. Bigger and brighter LCD screen (2.5 inches, please).

Thanks.

I agree with everything, Carlos, although I'm not sure if the 16Mpx is necessary.

BTW, I guess you must be a Krazy Kat fan. Hope there isn't any pile of bricks nearby.

[itn]

For the prospective R10 (Beautiful !), we would buy M8 to cover their R&D costs IMO...(^^;;

[craigrmurray]

Originally Posted by john_f

What's your suggestion ?

Best regards,
John F.

Whew! Jeez, John -- how many expressos, now?

I just want mine to take purty pitchers.

More later,when I can find some bennies (did they really call them leapers in the UK?).

[carstenw]

Styling and size more similar to R7 than R8...

[macusque]

I'd be still happy if they would make the whole camera the size/weight of the R9.

Bigger LCD.

Better battery life.

Put the M8 sensor inside.

[carstenw]

M8 sensor? Heck, at the size of the R8/R9, they could put the whole M8 inside!

[fotografz]

Basically an EOS performing camera to ISO 6400 that looks as good as a 5D @ 3200 ... and uses AF confirmation like the Contax RX.

Currently using Canon ff bodies with R lenses with an adater that provides AF confirmation.
It makes a world of difference.

Here's a R lens shot on a 5D using AF confirmation ... ISO 3200.

[rick123]

Hi Marc,

I see you have your tree decorated - beautiful shot!
I am considering the 5D with Leica glass as well. What adaptor allows AF confirmation?
Thanks!

Rick

[4season]

If practical, use the same battery, same memory media, same USB socket location, same software user interface as M8, for those who may be carrying both M and R systems.

Smaller AC brick. Let's face it, the M8's is clunky.

Full frame and more pixels only if they can do that without compromising the basic M8 goodness.

Lower noise, higher dynamic range and higher useable ISO as the technology allows.

Possibly consider OpenRAW format as an alternative to DNG.

Basic R8/R9 looks are okay, but there's no need to accomodate film, so let's slim those dimensions down and move the LCD away from my nose! Lose some weight too: < 700g?

Live histogram display in the optical viewfinder (why bother with conventional bargraphs?)

Bright matte-type viewscreen with gridlines, no need for LCD trickery here

Possibly retain the full 35mm-sized finder, (I don't mind seeing beyond the 1.3x digi frame)

No audible high frequency whine

The M8 was cheaper than the R9+DMR, and I think a good starting price for the R10 would be $4200. Photokina 08 will be fine (my wallet aches already)

[fotografz]

They're on e-bay. Just do a search for Leica R to EOS and scroll to the AF confirmation version from China. Well made and not a bad price considering what you're getting. Took about two weeks to get.

The focus window lights up and if you have the sound on it beeps when you achieve focus.

Priceless. Especially in low light.

Here's another one shot at ISO 1250. You gotta give Canon credit for high ISO performance ... which is made even better with fast R lenses IMO.

[rick123]

Thanks Marc!