Susie Posted December 17, 2012 Share #1 Posted December 17, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi All, Sorry if this has been covered before, but being a new member, I have not found any link to it here. Does anyone have copies, preferably in English, of the two articles Heinrich Stockler wrote in the late 1930's, describing his two-bath film developer? I have found several postings on the internet giving the formula, but none on the articles themselves - other than the fact that he wrote them! Does anyone here have first hand experience using it with modern films? Susie Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 17, 2012 Posted December 17, 2012 Hi Susie, Take a look here Stockler's 2-bath developer. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
k_g_wolf ✝ Posted December 18, 2012 Share #2 Posted December 18, 2012 (edited) Welcome! In case you might also want info on more modern stuff, google for >>BEUTLER<<. (Tetenal, Emofin). Best GEORG Edited December 18, 2012 by k_g_wolf Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith (M) Posted December 18, 2012 Share #3 Posted December 18, 2012 The two-bath developer Diafine has a good write-up here:- http://www.blackandwhitefineart.net/2011/01/diafine/ Have not tried it myself yet, but intend to when my Rodinal runs out... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPerson Posted December 18, 2012 Share #4 Posted December 18, 2012 (edited) I have used it for years but the last year or so, since BKA were taken over, supply in Europe is spotty to say the least. My go to for Diafine is Matt at AG Photographic but speaking with him this morning he said they are having trouble getting it and can never guarantee its arrival. Apparently outside of the US the BKA supply chain is chaotic. I also tried Silverprint, FirstCall, Process Supplies, SpeedGraphic, RK Photographic, Calumet. The only place I found it was at Mr Cad in the UK. Edited December 18, 2012 by MPerson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Holy Moly Posted December 18, 2012 Share #5 Posted December 18, 2012 The two-bath developer Diafine has a good write-up here:-Diafine – A Black and White Film Developer | Black and White Photography Have not tried it myself yet, but intend to when my Rodinal runs out... Here are some examples with diafine: very harsh light: L'arbre de heron | Flickr - Photo Sharing! Eléphant | Flickr - Photo Sharing! in the dark: .. | Flickr - Photo Sharing! when I want to get more 'rough' pics I use Rodinal. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPerson Posted December 18, 2012 Share #6 Posted December 18, 2012 Does anyone here have first hand experience using it with modern films? Susie Susie - I have only used it with Adox, Tri-X and Double-X. I have heard it is not good with T-Grain films. There is variation of the Stoëckler formula called the Leica or Leitz Two Bath. Info on my site. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susie Posted December 18, 2012 Author Share #7 Posted December 18, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi All, Thank you all for your replies, and especially you, Andy, for mentioning your experience with it, and the additional info about the Leitz version. Do you know why the substitution of additional sulphite and carbonate for the borax would have been made, and the effect of doing so? I was thinking of using it with PanF or FP4+ or Agfa APX-100. In your opinion, is it worth persuing with as an everyday developer? I have a 'rose tint' outlook on my photography when using my Leicas! Susie Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicanerd Posted December 19, 2012 Share #8 Posted December 19, 2012 Hi Susie, I would avoid films which are rich in contrast like PanF, FP4+ or Agfa APX-100. Just take Delta 100, expose it as ISO 50 and develop it with Ilfotec DD-X to Ilford's recommendation as ISO 50. Then it will not be necessary to use two-bath developers in everyday situations. Ludwig Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPerson Posted December 19, 2012 Share #9 Posted December 19, 2012 Susie - adding the Sodium Sulphate prevents two problems, staining and/or streaking and prevents the emulsion from swelling too much. I can recommend: "The Film Developing Cookbook" (Vol 2), 1999. Stephen G. Anchell and Bill Troop. Focal Press. They cover all the variations of D23 two-bath developers along with a lot of other recipes. I make a lot of my own developers, cheaper and is great fun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted December 19, 2012 Share #10 Posted December 19, 2012 With modern thin emulsion films, if you get thin negs, increase the metol concentration in bath A starting at 50%. I used the Leica variant of the developer. It will work best with an old thicker emulsion from eastern europe, Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susie Posted December 21, 2012 Author Share #11 Posted December 21, 2012 Hi Tobey, Thanks for mentioning you use the Leitz version. I gather the carbonate in solution B increases the alkalinity to promote faster developing. I was thinking of using it with Foma 100 (traditional) or Rollei 80S (modern) films. Printing would be done through my newly aquired Focomat 1c Colour. I think using this, the diffused condenser would make up for any shortfall in negative contrast. I am hoping to re-create that 1930's Leica look. Susie Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted December 22, 2012 Share #12 Posted December 22, 2012 Hi Tobey, Thanks for mentioning you use the Leitz version. I gather the carbonate in solution B increases the alkalinity to promote faster developing. I was thinking of using it with Foma 100 (traditional) or Rollei 80S (modern) films. Printing would be done through my newly aquired Focomat 1c Colour. I think using this, the diffused condenser would make up for any shortfall in negative contrast. I am hoping to re-create that 1930's Leica look. Susie yes. there are other things you can also use in B. My carbonite came from the Chemistry store in a 2 gal pail which i put into smaller work containers. It is powder. You would be surprised how cheap. 20 Mule team borax from the laundry aisle works fine also. $2 will get you a lifetime supply. Buy only metol and Hydroquinone from photo suppliers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susie Posted December 22, 2012 Author Share #13 Posted December 22, 2012 Guys, For some reason I hadn't thought of looking in my copy of "Manual of the Miniature Camera" published in 1950 (First edition 1938, second in 1943). Sure enough, there it is: "Leitz Two-Bath Developer". However, the formula given is the one usually called the Stoeckler! 5gm Metol and 100gm Sodium Sulphite in A and 10gm Borax in B, each being made up to a litre. Times are 3-5 minutes in A according to which film, and 3 minutes in B. I have read somewhere on line recently that the original Leitz formula (using carbonate) would give rise to quite a high grain level. Perhaps Stoeckler suggested using the borax as a buffered alkali rather than an un-buffered solution, to reduce the grain, his name then being associated with this re-working; Leitz just issuing this formula as an up-tp-date version of their original. Susie Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orient XI Posted March 8, 2013 Share #14 Posted March 8, 2013 The effect of using sodium carbonate would be to increase the alkalinity of the developer with a consequent increase in the contrast and grain of the image (i.e. a more vigorous developer) over the borax version. As a former university chemistry lecturer I would caution forum members about the care needed to specify the chemicals correctly. I note some confusion in earlier posts between sodium sulfate (inert) and sodium sulfite (developer preservative). Sodium carbonate can be purchased in three forms:- (i) anhydrous (relative molar mass 106) (ii) monohdrate (relative molar mass 124) (iii) decahydrate — as washing soda — (relative molar mass 286) The last is not recommended as it tends to decompose to the monohydrate and one never really knows what proportion of sodium carbonate is present. Very rarely I have seen the monhydrate specified in formulae; from the above data 124g of the monohydrate are equivalent to 106g of the anhydrous form. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted April 8, 2013 Share #15 Posted April 8, 2013 Worked great in the 1980`s with Plus X and Tri X. I did hundreds of rolls. Not good with modern thin emulsions versions of same films or TMax or Delta. I tried increasing metol content and extending time. Helps but does not solve problem fully Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
visoflex Posted April 12, 2013 Share #16 Posted April 12, 2013 I did try it, but didn't find any major advantage over dilute ID-11. However, after reading the late Barry Thornton's book, I tried his modified Stockler's formula, which he developed for modern thin emulsion films. This was considerably better, and I used it until I gave up film in favour of digital. I bought the raw chemicals from Raychem, and made my own solutions. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsgary Posted April 19, 2013 Share #17 Posted April 19, 2013 Not sure if this is any help 2-bath developer | Darkroom User You could try some of Barry Thorntons MonochromePhotography: Developers Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted June 28, 2013 Share #18 Posted June 28, 2013 I used it for years with Plus and Tri X. Then the films were reformulated to thin emulsion so Kodak could run them on the same line as color films. The films still retained the look of old, but the emulsion can not hold enough of the developing agent being so thin. I doubled the metol & hydroquinone content to compensate and results were better, but not as good as old. Tab emulsion films, just forget it. Try some on some efke or other european films that are not reformulated. I just use D76 1:1 which I can make cheaply. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted November 2, 2013 Share #19 Posted November 2, 2013 I used the Leitz version for decades with Plus x, tri x, pan x. Results were wonderful. Then they went to thin emulsion films and it wout not hold enough A. I tried double metol to compensate and results were better, but not to my satisfaction. I moved on to D76 and am happy again. There is a formula in "darkroom Cookbook" I used for Delta 100 that was decent. I would not recommend wasting time with Stockler unless you use some old european thick emulsion films. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxspbr Posted May 5, 2014 Share #20 Posted May 5, 2014 Susie, I use two-bath developers as my normal developer. The gradation is better and the grain is just perfect. I use a version wih metol-hidroquinone-bissulfite, and substituted the borax for sodium bicarbonate. For Tri-X and HP5, just perfect. With slower films I like the DK-20 in two baths, then using too the bicarbonate instead borax. Best, Martin Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.