Need some advice re equipment for BW home development

[philipus]

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So I have decided to learn how to develop BW at home and had a few questions.

 

I was recommended one of those light-tight changing bags. I have looked around a bit and found that they exist in different sizes.

 

What should I consider in choosing a changing bag?

 

As for processing tanks and reels, I've seen several different brands and that some tanks are made of plastic whereas others are metal.

 

Should I go for plastic or metal tanks and reels? Are certain brands better than others?

 

I have seen tanks which allow for two 35 strips and one 120 strip which I thought could be a good one to get since I'm curious about Hasselblad. Good or bad thinking?

 

Thermometers, do I need one of those 20€ electronic ones or can I go with a simpler/cheaper one? I realise temperature accuracy is pretty important.

 

Is it doable - as in not overly complicated and more expensive than lab processing - to develop negative colour at home, and even slide film? I'm just wondering. I realise the learning curve is pretty steep so will begin with BW.

 

I understand developers is a whole universe so I wish to begin as simple as possible. To just bring out what the film - I use Tri-X almost exclusively - is like, what should I use?

 

Is a stop bath necessary? This guy says he just uses water.

 

Sorry for all the newbie questions and thanks for your help

Philip

[Larcomb]

So I have decided to learn how to develop BW at home and had a few questions.

 

I was recommended one of those light-tight changing bags. I have looked around a bit and found that they exist in different sizes.

 

What should I consider in choosing a changing bag?

 

As for processing tanks and reels, I've seen several different brands and that some tanks are made of plastic whereas others are metal.

 

Should I go for plastic or metal tanks and reels? Are certain brands better than others?

 

I have seen tanks which allow for two 35 strips and one 120 strip which I thought could be a good one to get since I'm curious about Hasselblad. Good or bad thinking?

 

Thermometers, do I need one of those 20€ electronic ones or can I go with a simpler/cheaper one? I realise temperature accuracy is pretty important.

 

Is it doable - as in not overly complicated and more expensive than lab processing - to develop negative colour at home, and even slide film? I'm just wondering. I realise the learning curve is pretty steep so will begin with BW.

 

I understand developers is a whole universe so I wish to begin as simple as possible. To just bring out what the film - I use Tri-X almost exclusively - is like, what should I use?

 

Is a stop bath necessary? This guy says he just uses water.

 

Sorry for all the newbie questions and thanks for your help

Philip

 

Be sure to us stop path

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[andybarton]

Buy a big bag

 

I use plastic tanks

 

Develop Tri-X in HC110 Dilution B. 6:30 mins at 20C at 320 ISO

 

Use a stop bath

 

Reuse your fixer and stop bath but not your developer. "Fix" a piece of exposed leader film to check that it's still working. Increase the fix time as you reuse it.

 

Use a cheap alcohol thermometer

 

Use final rinse drops

 

Dry in a clean place (shower cubicle?) and hang diagonally to reduce any risk of streaking

 

Have fun

[OwinThomas]

Funnily enough I've just watched Ted Forbes' The Art of Photography podcast/video on YouTube.

 

Here's the link

.

 

There is a link in the description comments to his blog where he goes over the process and the required items for developing B&W film. He has other videos on B&W developments in a couple of shows earlier than this one.

 

He also mentions a process that does NOT require a stop bath, see the video and his blog post for more information.

Edited August 29, 2012 by OwinThomas

[earleygallery]

Hi,

 

Don't overcomplicate things to start with. Processing B&W is as easy as making fresh coffee.

 

Buy a large size changing bag, it's easier with more room inside the bag to move around. I would suggest a plastic tank to start with, such as the Paterson universal which allows you to process other sizes of film or 2 rolls of 35mm if you buy an extra reel. I find the metal reels very tricky to load, the Paterson reels have a twist action to feed the film on (you need to clean and dry them thoroughly or the film can stick).

 

Any thermometer will do. I use a stop bath, it's not essential but it's better than plain water which won't arrest the development as quickly.

 

C41 is easy, but temperature is more critical. You can buy a jobo processor which is temperature controlled or I used to use a tub and a fish tank heater. Slide film is more critical again.

[earleygallery]

Typing longer responses on the phone is a pain at times when you can't scroll down grrr.

 

There's a great B&W beginners guide on the ilford website. Also look at the massive developer chart (google it) for times for pretty much any film/developer combination.

 

You will love the feeling of seeing your first roll of freshly developed negs as you take them out of the tank to hang up to dry!

[Stealth3kpl]

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I second Andy's and James' comments. I'd also recommend a cotton changing bag rather than a synthetic material that might develop a humid atmosphere within which can cause the film to stick in the process of loading the reels.

Pete

[Messsucherkamera]

I would avoid plastic tanks and reels. The plasic "self loading" reels are a real pain to use. The plastic tanks can crack and cause a light leak if you drop them.

 

Stainless steel reels and tanks are best, IMHO. Hewes developing reels ( Hewes 35mm Stainless Steel Developing Reel HW35 B&H Photo Video ) are the best on the market. Hewes also makes 120 format reels.

 

Regarding changing bags, I use a standard size 35mm changing bag and find it just roomy enough to work with four reels, a four reel capacity tank and all the other stuff you will need in there. A 4x5 film changing tent would give you alot more room, but they are a bit costly compared to a changing bag.

 

As for stop bath, I prefer using stop bath over water, followed by a quick water rinse off.

 

If stop bath is mixed at too potent a concentration or if your film is left in it too long, it can cause pinholes in your negs. That's why some people use water for a stop bath instead. If you mix it correctly and time it correctly, stop bath should not harm your negs. It has never harmed any of mine, at least.

 

Some people recommend a 30 second water presoak before putting in the developer to prrepare the emulsion and to ensure uniform development. I have gone to using a 30 second presoak and have had good results in doing so.

 

Here is a great starter book Black and White Photography: A Basic Manual Third Revised Edition: Henry Horenstein: 9780316373050: Amazon.com: Books

 

While this is pretty much the definitive reference on B&W film photography:

Way Beyond Monochrome 2e: Advanced Techniques for Traditional Black & White Photography including digital negatives and hybrid printing: Ralph W. Lambrecht,Chris Woodhouse: 9780240816258: Amazon.com: Books There are probably better books for large format B&W, but Lambrecht & Woodhouse's tome is a very strong reference work to have on hand.

[uaqpau]

Have you seen this post by forum member "prosophos"? I've started developing my own b&w film at home just 2 months ago.. and Im following exactly those steps with great results.

 

Have a look:

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/film-forum/241700-how-i-process-my-b-w.html

 

thanks again peter

[Prosophos]

Have you seen this post by forum member "prosophos"? I've started developing my own b&w film at home just 2 months ago.. and Im following exactly those steps with great results.

 

Have a look:

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/film-forum/241700-how-i-process-my-b-w.html

 

thanks again peter

 

You're welcome, Pau.

 

Incidentally, I've placed all the related articles onto one page on my website:

 

How I process B&W film

 

Regards,

 

Peter.

P r o s o p h o s

[tobey bilek]

"This Guy" does not use stop. Neither do I and have not for 15 or 20 years. I learned from a wedding photog who did 150 rolls a week back in 1960`s. It is done to avoid problems, not to save money. He had the top quality business in the area at the time. He cared not one whit about saving money.

 

currently I use an alkaline fix so there is no saving the fixer from alkaline exposure of film developer. If I were to use an acid fix, I do one time use anyway and in either case. Use up on print tests. Silver precipitates out and lays on the bottom of fix bottles. It will stick like glue blobs to your next film.

 

Modern thin emulsion films retain little to no developer after you pour out. I do not even use a water rinse between film & fix.

 

Those economy tanks pictured will have plastic top that age harden like all plastic. One day you will put the top on and it will split center out radially. Turn on the lights, now the film is fogged & trash. Happened to me and others.

 

I have my Nikor tanks/reels I purchased in 1960. They are the best if you can find GOOD used ones. Second best is the German ones with Hewes reels. Forget the brand now. Recall now-Kinderman.

 

Third is Patterson Super System 4.

 

Agitation is what kills most because they do it improperly. Then they get under developed areas and they think they are "surge marks" & the cure is less agitation. WRONG. It is proper complete agitation.

 

Kodak and Ilford have agitation instructions on their sites. Follow instructions. Another way is to use a two reel tank, use one film in it on the bottom and an empty reel on top. Use only enough chem to cover the bottom reel. Agitate by inversion 2 per 30 se or 4 per 60 . You get sufficient agitation and no marks ever. Essentially the film is lifted free and clear of the developer. Same thing happens with Patterson tanks because of all the "empty" space on top. Perfect results every time.

 

Best practice is to drop the loaded reel into the tanks already filled with developer. Patterson nicely fills evenly and fast bottom up so it works the same way. When you pour thru the top, you pour developer down one side of the tanks splashing developer around. You will make it work most of the time with one or two reel tanks, eventually on your best film you will mark it.

 

I am a perfectionist. Lots of people are sloppy and do not see the difference. Learn the hard way if you want.

Edited September 1, 2012 by tobey bilek

[SiMPLiFY]

tobey,

 

I was taught not to use stop bath either and was told it was a trade secret. Perhaps it actually was at one time as there seem to be a lot of people who still use it. I was also advised that it prevented pin holes if I recall. I have never used it. I'm just now getting back into the darkroom after years of neglect.

[pico]

tobey,

 

I was taught not to use stop bath either and was told it was a trade secret. Perhaps it actually was at one time as there seem to be a lot of people who still use it. I was also advised that it prevented pin holes if I recall. I have never used it. I'm just now getting back into the darkroom after years of neglect.

 

Stop bath will not cause pin holes if it is diluted properly.

 

Regarding thermometers - when you buy one it is sometimes amusing to look at several at the same time and note whether there is any variance among them, and if there is a significant variation then either do not buy that kind, or choose the one that shows the mean-average (or median) among them. A fellow I know was puzzled why his film results were so different than others' until he found that his cheap thermometer was horribly inaccurate.

 

An aside: Several years ago I happened upon a new-old-stock of Kodak 'color' thermometers in an old sales display. These were expensive items. I bought the whole display for a only few dollars. Unfortunately (and stupidly), Kodak's display held the thermometers horizontally (parallel to the ground) and the fluid in all of them had separated. It took forever to get them right again.

[250swb]

When buying in your new bits and pieces get everything at least one size bigger than you think. So a very large changing bag is better than one 'just big enough', a larger processing tank is better than a small one, mix 2.5 litres of stop bath and fix instead of 'just enough', buy 2 litre mixing jugs instead of 1 litre. The only small things you might need are a tiny measuring cylinder and a 600ml measuring cylinder for smaller measurements of developer.

 

Steve

[chrism]

Weirdly, this has become a thread about how home film development is all about not using a stop bath. Please understand that nearly everybody does use a stop bath (unless using a two step compensating developer where it serves no purpose at all) and they do not consider fixer a single shot solution. It's best to follow the guidelines that are for beginners before listening to any of us here who have evolved our techniques into oddball procedures that work for us. And, yes, that applies to me as much as anyone else.

 

Chris

[traveler_101]

So I have decided to learn how to develop BW at home and had a few questions.

 

I was recommended one of those light-tight changing bags. I have looked around a bit and found that they exist in different sizes.

 

What should I consider in choosing a changing bag?

 

As for processing tanks and reels, I've seen several different brands and that some tanks are made of plastic whereas others are metal.

 

Should I go for plastic or metal tanks and reels? Are certain brands better than others?

 

I have seen tanks which allow for two 35 strips and one 120 strip which I thought could be a good one to get since I'm curious about Hasselblad. Good or bad thinking?

 

Thermometers, do I need one of those 20€ electronic ones or can I go with a simpler/cheaper one? I realise temperature accuracy is pretty important.

 

Is it doable - as in not overly complicated and more expensive than lab processing - to develop negative colour at home, and even slide film? I'm just wondering. I realise the learning curve is pretty steep so will begin with BW.

 

I understand developers is a whole universe so I wish to begin as simple as possible. To just bring out what the film - I use Tri-X almost exclusively - is like, what should I use?

 

Is a stop bath necessary? This guy says he just uses water.

 

Sorry for all the newbie questions and thanks for your help

Philip

 

Hi Philip,

 

I am not an expert but I was in your shoes just 6 months ago--wondering "is it doable" and can I manage?

 

I have tried three film types and two developers. Tri-X in D-76 (well Fomadon P, a D-76 clone) is my favorite. Powdered developers are cheap--keep in mind. Nothing wrong with starting with Tri-X.

 

I didn't buy a changing bag; it is very expensive--that was one reason, and the other was that I don't like the idea of having to work in a confined space. Instead I use a walk in closet which I made light tight. I have a work space in there and that works well. It took some time to set this up--but I am glad I did. If you must use a bag make sure you get a large one as everyone is saying here.

 

I use the Paterson system 4 with the plastic reels. It is easy, especially if you are working with the film on the roll (possible if you leave the leader exposed when you rewind); it gets more complicated when you have to take the film off the roll, but still is very doable. The one weakness with plastic reels is that they don't work well wet. Make sure the reels are dry and I mean bone dry. Buy PATERSON.

 

I was (and am) trying to save money and I read that it is not necessary to use a stop bath, water will do. The instructions I got were to fill the tank four times with water and do 30 seconds of agitation for each fill--or something like that. What a PITA--filling and taking the cap on and off, geez. I tried it once. Afterwards, I bought pure white vinegar at the grocery store (cheap) and make my own stop bath diluting the vinegar with water before I start developing. Works well.

 

A good mercury thermometer gives almost instant readings; helps you when you are trying to get the temperature right.I heard they are illegal in the EU or something like that. I bought mine in New York City and brought it back over here (Norway).

 

I use my own wrist watch for the all important time keeping, after trying the cell phone and the lap top computer--they are just unnecessary complications. I just wait until the second hand reaches 15 seconds before the top of the dial, pour in the developer (takes about 15 seconds) and start timing. Oh, I WRITE DOWN the time on a piece of paper as I start--avoids confusion.

 

Yes, get a photo-flow product for the last step and run the film in and out of it a few times after it has sat in the mixture. Don't use this stuff in your tank because it builds up and ruins your reels. I take the film off the reel and put the photo-flo in a plastic potato salad container! It sits there 5 minutes, I take the film edges between finger and thumb and pull the film out of the container and then let it curl back in. Do it a few times. I have never had problems with spotting or streaking.

 

Last thing: you will save money and you will in all likelihood come to like doing this. It's exciting to see what you have on your roll of film and to realize that you have done it yourself!

[andybarton]

My changing bag cost me about £10. Not expensive.

 

And the Massive Development Chart iPhone App is extremely handy. Well worth the couple of quid to purchase. All your timings are done for you.

Edited September 1, 2012 by andybarton

[CalArts 99]

 

Stainless steel reels and tanks are best, IMHO. Hewes developing reels ( Hewes 35mm Stainless Steel Developing Reel HW35 B&H Photo Video ) are the best on the market. Hewes also makes 120 format reels.

 

 

The Hewes reels are excellent and will last a lifetime. They have two 'hooked' ends inside the reel and they lock into the film sprockets making loading the reels very easy and precise.

 

The 'trick' to using steel reels is to place the reel on its side on a flat surface and turn the reel while keeping the film slightly cupped in your hand and holding it still. In other words, let the reel wrap the film and don't try to wrap the film onto the reel.

 

If you get in the habit of leaving the tongue out of the film canister after you rewind it in the camera, then you can start the loading in the light. I stop rewinding after the pressure is gone (and you hear that slight click of the film leader) and then bend the tongue to remind me that the roll has been exposed. Cut the tongue and then start loading the film leader onto the reel in daylight to get it started. People say you can scratch the film pulling it out of the canister but that's not true. The canister film slot is lined with soft felt material and anyway it goes in an out of the canister when you advance and rewind the film in the camera.

 

I've personally never had any issues with scratching and in fact I did have issues when I used the usual technique of popping of the film canister cap and having the entire roll of film all bunched up in the changing bag. I think that can potentially cause more issues.

 

EDIT: that link to B+H shows an image of a conventional made in Taiwan steel reel and not a Hewes reel. Here is the difference between the Hewes and a conventional steel reel. The Hewes is the reel on the top. The Hewes reel is also much thicker and more robust. And it's a UK product.

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Edited September 1, 2012 by CalArts 99
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[taskoni]

So I have decided to learn how to develop BW at home and had a few questions.

 

I was recommended one of those light-tight changing bags. I have looked around a bit and found that they exist in different sizes.

 

What should I consider in choosing a changing bag?

 

As for processing tanks and reels, I've seen several different brands and that some tanks are made of plastic whereas others are metal.

 

Should I go for plastic or metal tanks and reels? Are certain brands better than others?

 

I have seen tanks which allow for two 35 strips and one 120 strip which I thought could be a good one to get since I'm curious about Hasselblad. Good or bad thinking?

 

Thermometers, do I need one of those 20€ electronic ones or can I go with a simpler/cheaper one? I realise temperature accuracy is pretty important.

 

Is it doable - as in not overly complicated and more expensive than lab processing - to develop negative colour at home, and even slide film? I'm just wondering. I realise the learning curve is pretty steep so will begin with BW.

 

I understand developers is a whole universe so I wish to begin as simple as possible. To just bring out what the film - I use Tri-X almost exclusively - is like, what should I use?

 

Is a stop bath necessary? This guy says he just uses water.

 

Sorry for all the newbie questions and thanks for your help

Philip

 

Many great advises above. Large changing bag will make your life easier and you should go for one. The Patterson Super system 4 is an easy going solution as loading the film into the reel. I use water instead of stop bath, for 30 sec, not more. The shorter the "stop bath" or the "water bath" between the developer and fixer, the better as longer times than 1 min sometimes can produce foggy negatives (at least from my previous experience). I usually fix for around 10 min. If you are planing to scan your negatives and not wet printing them I am not sure you'll find big difference (arguable, I know) between the developers. Kodak T-Max developer will be just as good as D-76 or Ilford developers like the mentioned previously including Ilfosol 3, Ilfotec lc 29 etc. T-max developer is one you can reuse so for the beginning you can give it a try if you are planing to shoot some test rolls. The temperature is not that critical - few degrees here and there on the developer for b/w films is ok, I fix with warmer than recommended fixer (around 23C) but this is personal preference. I agitate for 5 seconds every 30 seconds (three inversions). Hope that helps a little!

Regards,

 

Boris

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[chris_livsey]

For me the less pleasant,unenjoyable ,tedious, part of the process is loading the reels. With a vengeance I hate changing bags. They get hot. they flop all over what you are trying to do inside them and I wish I still had a darkroom.

However, and I understand the extra expense in what is an inexpensive process to set up, is a changing tent. Not one of the walk-in ones, although I have been tempted, but a pop up one. Transforming in the first step hassle of reel loading.

Other advice is sound and I second a look at the Ilford web pages, they do nothing but black and white and they do it well.

 

Calumet Changing Room

 

ILFORD PHOTO - Processing a Black & White film