Summary of Q&A Session with Stefan Daniel during Hessenpark Meeting

admin · 17.06.2009, 20:25

Hi,

here's finally the official translation of the summary of the Q&A session with Stefan Daniel during the Hessenpark member meeting.

I transcibed it from the video I made that evening and translated it with my limited English skills (What the heck is "verkitten" or "Kittglieder" in English?)

If you have any improvements please let me know via PM, I'll correct it here.

Strategy In General

Panasonic Cooperation

The Panasonic cooperation will continue
More compact cameras to come

Leica and Micro FourThirds

Leica is not going to offer MFT cameras
Leica may offer MFT lenses
MFT is and interesting system
Sensor size is a very limiting factor

Leica And The Forum

Leica is not going to run an own forum on their website
Collaboration is seen as running well and constructive
Positive example is the first L-Camera TV show from the Leica production
Many Leica employees are reading in this forum regularly, so that important contributions in the forum are reported immeditiately to the management
The forum provides many contributions to the product development
Stefan Daniel agrees to answer forum questions more often in the future

Leica As Lens Supplier for Other Camera Systems

Patents needed are only swapped inside of the Japanes camera industry
Zeiss lenses are manufactured by Cosina who are seen as Japanese company
That way Zeiss receives the patents, Leica as German company does not
Leica's attempts to come to an agreement failed until now
Reverse engineering is legally too risky

Extending The Product Range

No Leica scanners are planned
The LCD projector range is continued but won't have interchangeable lenses
Maybe the customer service will offer to implement different lenses

R-System

R10 and Alternatives

There will be no digital SLR aka R10
But there will be - and we are working on this - a suitable solution how to use R lenses digitally
It's very important to us, that owners of R lenses can take pictures digitally in the near future
This solution will have nothing to do to with the S2
Leica has examined intensively which features and what price tag a R10 had to have
Price would have been 6000 - 7000 Euro and it would have been far behind the competitors
This would have been a solution for the existing customer base but not for new customers
Therefore the R system is discontinued, the existing system runs out
There is no due date for the new solution
Indirect notes by Stefan Daniel to 35 mm full format
Definitely it's not going to be a SLR

DMR
The reasons for stopping the DMR were

Cooperation with Imacon now Hasselblad ended very abruptly
Sales figures were low (approx. 10% of M8/M8.2)

The DMR firmware will have no updates.

M-System

M9

A LEICA M9 will come
Developing full format is technically very demanding because of the M lenses
We are one step further but still not there where we can announce the camera

M8 Upgrades

No more upgrades are planned
Dealers don't like upgrades as no additional sales are generated
The M8 upgrade constrained Leica M8.2 sales
Used cameras are entry level cameras thus attracting new customers to Leica
This would drop by future upgrade offers

Sensor Supplier

Kodak is prepared to Leica's needs, for example the special size of the S2 sensor
Other manufacturers like Sony only offer a fixed range of sensors

Summarits / Entry Level Lenses

Summarits are true Leica lenses
The LEICA ELMAR-M f/3,8 24 mm was already an extension of this line
More affordable Leica lenses are to come - perhaps not named Summarit (reserved for 2.5 lenses)
Summilux 50mm sales are 100% above of Summarit sales

Super Wide Lenses
Asked for super wide lenses:

Leica already has an 16mm - Leica can only offer shorter lenses
This is a topic we could work on...

18mm Finder Availability

18mm finder to come in June
The frame precision wasn't sufficient yet therefore a rework was necessary

NOCTILUX Availability

NOCTILUX wa announced for February
Production turned out to be more complex than assumed
NOCTILUX consists of 8 elements in 5 groups
These groups are first cemented (?), then coated
This process had problems which are solved now
End of June, beginning of July larger quantities will reach the market

S-System

Pilot lot is in production by now
Everything is on schedule
Price will be on the same level as the top cameras in the digital professional segment - like high end solutions by Hasselblad and Phase One
Body will be below 20,000 Euros
Because of the Leica lens quality and the lacking low-pass filter LEICA S2 can compete with 50MP cameras of the competitors
Target group of the S2 are professional photographers (studio, fashion, automobile)
Total market are about 10,000 cameras per year
Leica is going for a at least two digit market share

German original is here:
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-...enfassung.html

stunsworth · 17.06.2009, 20:33

Thanks Andreas, it's much appreciated.

One question, under extending the product range there's mention of a 'beamer range'. What's that?

bill · 17.06.2009, 20:35

Thanks Andreas, clear and concise.

Steve, a "beamer" is an LCD projector.

Regards,

Bill

delander · 17.06.2009, 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by stunsworth

Thanks Andreas, it's much appreciated.

One question, under extending the product range there's mention of a 'beamer range'. What's that?

I think it means projector?

Jeff

stunsworth · 17.06.2009, 22:01

Thanks, that makes sense.

Doc Henry · 17.06.2009, 22:37

Thanks Andreas for this clear and short summary !
Regards
Henry
so the next step is the "M9": it's a good news

dkpeterborough · 17.06.2009, 23:05

Reading between the lines ref "no R10 DSLR" ... but "important that R lenses are usable digitally" could this imply an interchangeable R lens EVF digital body ?

Cheers

dunk

StS · 17.06.2009, 23:13

Thank you for the summary.

Off-topic -
I have the impression 'beamer' for projector is an English word, which exists in Germany only. In the US, a beamer seems to be a BMW...

Stefan

tdschofield · 18.06.2009, 06:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkpeterborough

Reading between the lines ref "no R10 DSLR" ... but "important that R lenses are usable digitally" could this imply an interchangeable R lens EVF digital body ?

Cheers

dunk

It would help many of us to have confidence to continue patiently waiting for the digital R solution, if we could have some minimal information, such as confirmation of whether it will have functions such as automatic diaphragm, open-aperture metering, aperture priority, or perhaps a shift mechanism on the lens mount ;-) . (i.e. more functional than the fully manual operation of Canon adapters)

Tom

masjah · 18.06.2009, 09:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdschofield

It would help many of us to have confidence to continue patiently waiting for the digital R solution, if we could have some minimal information, such as confirmation of whether it will have functions such as automatic diaphragm, open-aperture metering, aperture priority, or perhaps a shift mechanism on the lens mount ;-) . (i.e. more functional than the fully manual operation of Canon adapters)

Tom

Tom, welcome to the Forum. I would certainly second what you say.

hoppyman · 20.06.2009, 04:02

Yes and the reference at the dinner from Herr Daniel was that there there was no planned wide angle lens for the new Pradovit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by delander

I think it means projector?

Jeff

jaapv · 20.06.2009, 10:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdschofield

It would help many of us to have confidence to continue patiently waiting for the digital R solution, if we could have some minimal information, such as confirmation of whether it will have functions such as automatic diaphragm, open-aperture metering, aperture priority, or perhaps a shift mechanism on the lens mount ;-) . (i.e. more functional than the fully manual operation of Canon adapters)

Tom

I strongly suspect the outline of the thing is not settled yet, but I think we can safely assume that it will offer full functionality.(except , I guess. a shift mechanism)

mgcd · 20.06.2009, 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaapv

I strongly suspect the outline of the thing is not settled yet, but I think we can safely assume that it will offer full functionality.(except , I guess. a shift mechanism)

I'm afraid I view this IMAGINARY solution as yet another attempt at damage control by Leica with respect to disgruntled R users. I doubt very much that any such solution will ever see the light of day. Beyond that, any EVF/EVIL solution would be totally unacceptable as far as my requirements are concerned.

dkpeterborough · 20.06.2009, 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgcd

I'm afraid I view this IMAGINARY solution as yet another attempt at damage control by Leica with respect to disgruntled R users. I doubt very much that any such solution will ever see the light of day. Beyond that, any EVF/EVIL solution would be totally unacceptable as far as my requirements are concerned.

But supposing Leica are developing, or have access to, a 'super' EVF better than any existing EVF? They have already stated that a future 'R lens' camera will not be an SLR . If there is no mirror how else apart from using an EVF would 'R lens' viewing and focusing be achieved? EVFs are likely to improve and are likely to supersede mirrors eventually. I'm quite impressed with the G1 EVF.

Cheers

dunk

lct · 21.06.2009, 00:24

Pana's probably planning to launch an EPS EVIL to compete with the Samsung NX. Put an adapter ring on it and you'll get the famous solution Leica's thinking about.

mgcd · 21.06.2009, 00:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkpeterborough

But supposing Leica are developing, or have access to, a 'super' EVF better than any existing EVF? They have already stated that a future 'R lens' camera will not be an SLR . If there is no mirror how else apart from using an EVF would 'R lens' viewing and focusing be achieved? EVFs are likely to improve and are likely to supersede mirrors eventually. I'm quite impressed with the G1 EVF.

Cheers

dunk

I use the R8/DMR currently, why would I want to even consider what I see as an inferior solution? The G1 is nowhere good enough to even remotely be considered for my purposes. Then again, I'm a photojournalist thus my requirements cannot be met in any way, shape or form by an EVF.

Indeed, your needs may differ.

Cheers

jaapv · 21.06.2009, 23:50

Nobody is talking G1...Let's wait and see what the actual solution is before we start hammering it.

andybarton · 21.06.2009, 23:58

Mark is talking G1 as the best EVF out there today. Unless I am reading him incorrectly.

I have already made my feelings viz G1 EVFs in his thread.

If I'm going anywhere with this, it's to Nikon.

jaapv · 22.06.2009, 00:08

I cannot but agree with you on the G1 EVF. I was not one of those that raised their hands when Stefan Daniel asked who found the G1 EVF good enough. However, I got the strong impression that Leica is contemplating something considerably better. Wait and see.

dkpeterborough · 22.06.2009, 00:33

OK ... going back to the Q&A Session summary and specifically "R10 and Alternatives" where it definitely states :

' .. no digital SLR aka R10'
'... very important to us, that owners of R lenses can take pictures digitally'
'Definitely it's not going to be a SLR'

Given that there is definitely not going to be a DSLR, can anyone think of any other feasible way of utilizing R lenses on a full frame body other than by using an EVF camera? The only other possible solution I can think of is a pellicle fixed mirror which with a digital sensor might not compromise image quality as much as with a film camera. But it would still need a pentaprism - so the EVF still seems more of a possibility.

Cheers

dunk

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17.06.2009, 20:25	#1 (permalink)
admin Administrator Join Date: 23.05.2006 Location: Bonn, Südstadt Posts: 1,987	Summary of Q&A Session with Stefan Daniel during Hessenpark Meeting Hi, here's finally the official translation of the summary of the Q&A session with Stefan Daniel during the Hessenpark member meeting. I transcibed it from the video I made that evening and translated it with my limited English skills (What the heck is "verkitten" or "Kittglieder" in English?) If you have any improvements please let me know via PM, I'll correct it here. Strategy In General Panasonic Cooperation The Panasonic cooperation will continue More compact cameras to come Leica and Micro FourThirds Leica is not going to offer MFT cameras Leica may offer MFT lenses MFT is and interesting system Sensor size is a very limiting factor Leica And The Forum Leica is not going to run an own forum on their website Collaboration is seen as running well and constructive Positive example is the first L-Camera TV show from the Leica production Many Leica employees are reading in this forum regularly, so that important contributions in the forum are reported immeditiately to the management The forum provides many contributions to the product development Stefan Daniel agrees to answer forum questions more often in the future Leica As Lens Supplier for Other Camera Systems Patents needed are only swapped inside of the Japanes camera industry Zeiss lenses are manufactured by Cosina who are seen as Japanese company That way Zeiss receives the patents, Leica as German company does not Leica's attempts to come to an agreement failed until now Reverse engineering is legally too risky Extending The Product Range No Leica scanners are planned The LCD projector range is continued but won't have interchangeable lenses Maybe the customer service will offer to implement different lenses R-System R10 and Alternatives There will be no digital SLR aka R10 But there will be - and we are working on this - a suitable solution how to use R lenses digitally It's very important to us, that owners of R lenses can take pictures digitally in the near future This solution will have nothing to do to with the S2 Leica has examined intensively which features and what price tag a R10 had to have Price would have been 6000 - 7000 Euro and it would have been far behind the competitors This would have been a solution for the existing customer base but not for new customers Therefore the R system is discontinued, the existing system runs out There is no due date for the new solution Indirect notes by Stefan Daniel to 35 mm full format Definitely it's not going to be a SLR DMR The reasons for stopping the DMR were Cooperation with Imacon now Hasselblad ended very abruptly Sales figures were low (approx. 10% of M8/M8.2) The DMR firmware will have no updates. M-System M9 A LEICA M9 will come Developing full format is technically very demanding because of the M lenses We are one step further but still not there where we can announce the camera M8 Upgrades No more upgrades are planned Dealers don't like upgrades as no additional sales are generated The M8 upgrade constrained Leica M8.2 sales Used cameras are entry level cameras thus attracting new customers to Leica This would drop by future upgrade offers Sensor Supplier Kodak is prepared to Leica's needs, for example the special size of the S2 sensor Other manufacturers like Sony only offer a fixed range of sensors Summarits / Entry Level Lenses Summarits are true Leica lenses The LEICA ELMAR-M f/3,8 24 mm was already an extension of this line More affordable Leica lenses are to come - perhaps not named Summarit (reserved for 2.5 lenses) Summilux 50mm sales are 100% above of Summarit sales Super Wide Lenses Asked for super wide lenses: Leica already has an 16mm - Leica can only offer shorter lenses This is a topic we could work on... 18mm Finder Availability 18mm finder to come in June The frame precision wasn't sufficient yet therefore a rework was necessary NOCTILUX Availability NOCTILUX wa announced for February Production turned out to be more complex than assumed NOCTILUX consists of 8 elements in 5 groups These groups are first cemented (?), then coated This process had problems which are solved now End of June, beginning of July larger quantities will reach the market S-System Pilot lot is in production by now Everything is on schedule Price will be on the same level as the top cameras in the digital professional segment - like high end solutions by Hasselblad and Phase One Body will be below 20,000 Euros Because of the Leica lens quality and the lacking low-pass filter LEICA S2 can compete with 50MP cameras of the competitors Target group of the S2 are professional photographers (studio, fashion, automobile) Total market are about 10,000 cameras per year Leica is going for a at least two digit market share German original is here: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-...enfassung.html __________________ Andreas Jürgensen Admin & Editor Bitte helft - Leica User For Pakistan Last edited by admin; 18.06.2009 at 07:29. Reason: Corrected translation

17.06.2009, 20:33	#2 (permalink)
stunsworth Erfahrener Benutzer Join Date: 30.09.2002 Location: Manchester Posts: 14,136	Re: Summary of Q&A Session with Stefan Daniel during Hessenpark Meeting Thanks Andreas, it's much appreciated. One question, under extending the product range there's mention of a 'beamer range'. What's that? __________________ Steve Website - www.steveunsworth.co.uk Flickr - http://www.flickr.com/photos/39877124@N05/

17.06.2009, 20:35	#3 (permalink)
bill Erfahrener Benutzer Join Date: 27.01.2003 Location: Frimley Posts: 6,302	Re: Summary of Q&A Session with Stefan Daniel during Hessenpark Meeting Thanks Andreas, clear and concise. Steve, a "beamer" is an LCD projector. Regards, Bill __________________ Bill Palmer Gentleman Amateur & Leica Ambassador Lightmancer ~ Rangefound 12 of my best ~ Some of my images THE LEICA USER FORUM CHARITY BOOK 2010

17.06.2009, 22:01	#5 (permalink)
stunsworth Erfahrener Benutzer Join Date: 30.09.2002 Location: Manchester Posts: 14,136	Re: Summary of Q&A Session with Stefan Daniel during Hessenpark Meeting Thanks, that makes sense. __________________ Steve Website - www.steveunsworth.co.uk Flickr - http://www.flickr.com/photos/39877124@N05/

17.06.2009, 22:37	#6 (permalink)
Doc Henry Erfahrener Benutzer Join Date: 01.12.2007 Posts: 4,129	Re: Summary of Q&A Session with Stefan Daniel during Hessenpark Meeting Thanks Andreas for this clear and short summary ! Regards Henry so the next step is the "M9": it's a good news

17.06.2009, 23:05	#7 (permalink)
dkpeterborough Erfahrener Benutzer Join Date: 27.06.2004 Location: Cambridgeshire Posts: 1,301	Re: Summary of Q&A Session with Stefan Daniel during Hessenpark Meeting Reading between the lines ref "no R10 DSLR" ... but "important that R lenses are usable digitally" could this imply an interchangeable R lens EVF digital body ? Cheers dunk __________________ Faith is the bird that feels the light when the dawn is still dark. ... Rabindranath Tagore

17.06.2009, 23:13	#8 (permalink)
StS Erfahrener Benutzer Join Date: 22.03.2007 Posts: 2,434	AW: Summary of Q&A Session with Stefan Daniel during Hessenpark Meeting Thank you for the summary. Off-topic - I have the impression 'beamer' for projector is an English word, which exists in Germany only. In the US, a beamer seems to be a BMW... Stefan

21.06.2009, 00:24	#15 (permalink)
lct Erfahrener Benutzer Join Date: 04.01.2004 Posts: 4,475	Re: Summary of Q&A Session with Stefan Daniel during Hessenpark Meeting Pana's probably planning to launch an EPS EVIL to compete with the Samsung NX. Put an adapter ring on it and you'll get the famous solution Leica's thinking about.

21.06.2009, 23:50	#17 (permalink)
jaapv Erfahrener Benutzer Join Date: 14.09.2004 Location: Hellevoetsluis, Netherlands Posts: 16,810	Re: Summary of Q&A Session with Stefan Daniel during Hessenpark Meeting Nobody is talking G1...Let's wait and see what the actual solution is before we start hammering it. __________________ *Jaap* WWW.JAAPVPHOTOGRAPHY.EU Skype: JAAPVPHOTOGRAPHY

21.06.2009, 23:58	#18 (permalink)
andybarton Moderator Join Date: 21.06.2006 Location: Airstrip 1 - 53°17'N, 03°04'W Posts: 15,925	Re: Summary of Q&A Session with Stefan Daniel during Hessenpark Meeting Mark is talking G1 as the best EVF out there today. Unless I am reading him incorrectly. I have already made my feelings viz G1 EVFs in his thread. If I'm going anywhere with this, it's to Nikon. __________________ . Andy _________________________________________________ Website: Updated: 29th August 2010 Blog: "My Turn This Year (too)" Updated: 2nd September 2010 __________________________________________________ THE LEICA USER FORUM CHARITY BOOK 2010

22.06.2009, 00:08	#19 (permalink)
jaapv Erfahrener Benutzer Join Date: 14.09.2004 Location: Hellevoetsluis, Netherlands Posts: 16,810	Re: Summary of Q&A Session with Stefan Daniel during Hessenpark Meeting I cannot but agree with you on the G1 EVF. I was not one of those that raised their hands when Stefan Daniel asked who found the G1 EVF good enough. However, I got the strong impression that Leica is contemplating something considerably better. Wait and see. __________________ *Jaap* WWW.JAAPVPHOTOGRAPHY.EU Skype: JAAPVPHOTOGRAPHY

22.06.2009, 00:33	#20 (permalink)
dkpeterborough Erfahrener Benutzer Join Date: 27.06.2004 Location: Cambridgeshire Posts: 1,301	Re: Summary of Q&A Session with Stefan Daniel during Hessenpark Meeting OK ... going back to the Q&A Session summary and specifically "R10 and Alternatives" where it definitely states : ' .. no digital SLR aka R10' '... very important to us, that owners of R lenses can take pictures digitally' 'Definitely it's not going to be a SLR' Given that there is definitely not going to be a DSLR, can anyone think of any other feasible way of utilizing R lenses on a full frame body other than by using an EVF camera? The only other possible solution I can think of is a pellicle fixed mirror which with a digital sensor might not compromise image quality as much as with a film camera. But it would still need a pentaprism - so the EVF still seems more of a possibility. Cheers dunk __________________ Faith is the bird that feels the light when the dawn is still dark. ... Rabindranath Tagore

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Forum - Summary of Q&A Session with Stefan Daniel	This thread	Refback	02.07.2009 11:06
Forum - Summary of Q&A Session with Stefan Daniel	This thread	Refback	02.07.2009 11:02
Forum - Summary of Q&A Session with Stefan Daniel	This thread	Refback	02.07.2009 10:59
CONTAX CLUB Carl Zeiss °Q½×°Ï :: Æ[¬Ý¤å³¹ - Summary of Q&A Session with Stefan Daniel	This thread	Refback	02.07.2009 10:58
CONTAX CLUB Carl Zeiss °Q½×°Ï :: Æ[¬Ý¤å³¹ - Summary of Q&A Session with Stefan Daniel during Hessenp	This thread	Refback	02.07.2009 10:55
Foto Actualidad	This thread	Refback	01.07.2009 18:16
Leica news posted on LUF.... - The GetDPI Workshop Forums	This thread	Refback	01.07.2009 17:13
Leica news posted on LUF.... - The GetDPI Workshop Forums	This thread	Refback	01.07.2009 14:33
Leica news posted on LUF.... - The GetDPI Workshop Forums	This thread	Refback	01.07.2009 13:43
Ôîðóì ïîëüçîâàòåëåé ÖÔÊ Olympus -> â íîâîì 2009 ãîäó...	This thread	Refback	01.07.2009 09:14
Ôîðóì ïîëüçîâàòåëåé ÖÔÊ Olympus -> â íîâîì 2009 ãîäó...	This thread	Refback	01.07.2009 08:34
'Leica gaat lenzen voor Micro Four Thirds-mount ontwikkelen' \| tweakers.mobi	This thread	Refback	30.06.2009 09:09
'Leica gaat lenzen voor Micro Four Thirds-mount ontwikkelen' \| Electronics \| Tweakers.net Nieuws	This thread	Refback	29.06.2009 22:34
'Leica gaat lenzen voor Micro Four Thirds-mount ontwikkelen' \| Electronics \| Tweakers.net Nieuws	This thread	Refback	29.06.2009 19:51
qTp Forum ~ Olympus Pen E-P1	This thread	Refback	29.06.2009 19:11
¡°áâ¿¨£¬ËÉÏÂºÍÎ¢43¡±¼°Î´À´¼Æ»®... - 4/3ÏµÍ³¼°Micro4/3ÏµÍ³ÌÖÂÛ - 4/3ÉãÓ°ÂÛÌ³ \|4/3ÏµÍ³\|O¼ÇÒ»×å\|Èý·ÖÖ®ËÄ\|°ÂÁÖ°ÍË¹\|olympus\|EÏµÍ³\|4/3ÏµÍ³\|ËÉÏÂ\|áâ¿¨\|ÊÊÂí\|¿Â´ï - Powered by Discuz!	This thread	Refback	28.06.2009 18:28
[Leica] FS: All of my R gear (sadly!)	This thread	Refback	28.06.2009 02:46
[Leica] FS: All of my R gear (sadly!)	This thread	Refback	27.06.2009 06:57
leica ?? system ??????....... - ????? - ??? Olympus camera Hong Kong users forum ???? ???? ????? - Powered by Discuz!	This thread	Refback	26.06.2009 17:02
qTp Forum ~ Olympus Pen E-P1	This thread	Refback	25.06.2009 16:10
Olympus and Panasonic rumors Blog Archive (FT 4) Leica to join the MicroFourThirds world with his lenses!	This thread	Refback	25.06.2009 14:58
qTp Forum ~ Olympus Pen E-P1	This thread	Refback	25.06.2009 10:26
qTp Forum ~ Olympus Pen E-P1	This thread	Refback	25.06.2009 09:47
qTp Forum ~ Olympus Pen E-P1	This thread	Refback	25.06.2009 09:45
qTp Forum ~ Olympus Pen E-P1	This thread	Refback	25.06.2009 09:15
Re: Lot's of info, but few promises ....: Olympus SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review	This thread	Refback	25.06.2009 06:38
Re: LEICA WILL JOIN Re: Will Leica join m4/3?: Olympus SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review	This thread	Refback	24.06.2009 14:53
Will Leica join m4/3? [Page 2]: Olympus SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review	This thread	Refback	24.06.2009 13:08
Re: LEICA WILL JOIN Re: Will Leica join m4/3?: Olympus SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review	This thread	Refback	24.06.2009 13:06
Business Topics Leica and mFT - Fourthirdsphoto Forum	This thread	Refback	24.06.2009 12:53
Petites infos sérieuses en provenance du forum Leica	This thread	Refback	24.06.2009 12:14
Mobile01 ??????????m4/3 ?????...	This thread	Refback	24.06.2009 05:39
leica ?? system ??????....... - ????? - ??? Olympus camera Hong Kong users forum ???? ???? ????? - Powered by Discuz!	This thread	Refback	24.06.2009 03:56
Leica m8: primeras imagenes - Página 171 - OJODIGITAL	This thread	Refback	23.06.2009 20:29
Petites infos sérieuses en provenance du forum Leica	This thread	Refback	23.06.2009 15:40
¼g¯u°g - °Q½×°Ï	This thread	Refback	23.06.2009 14:57
Mobile01 ??????????m4/3 ?????...	This thread	Refback	23.06.2009 14:11
Mobile01 ??????????m4/3 ?????...	This thread	Refback	23.06.2009 12:42
Petites infos sérieuses en provenance du forum Leica	This thread	Refback	23.06.2009 12:27
Mobile01 ??????????m4/3 ?????...	This thread	Refback	23.06.2009 11:45
¼g¯u°g - °Q½×°Ï	This thread	Refback	23.06.2009 10:04
leica ?? system ??????....... - ????? - ??? Olympus camera Hong Kong users forum ???? ???? ????? - Powered by Discuz!	This thread	Refback	23.06.2009 09:35
Mobile01 ??????????m4/3 ?????...	This thread	Refback	23.06.2009 09:19
leica ?? system ??????....... - ????? - ??? Olympus camera Hong Kong users forum ???? ???? ????? - Powered by Discuz!	This thread	Refback	23.06.2009 09:10
Mobile01 ??????????m4/3 ?????...	This thread	Refback	23.06.2009 09:04
Mobile01 ??????????m4/3 ?????...	This thread	Refback	23.06.2009 08:28
Mobile01 ??????????m4/3 ?????...	This thread	Refback	23.06.2009 08:27
Petites infos sérieuses en provenance du forum Leica	This thread	Refback	23.06.2009 07:03
Mobile01 ??????????m4/3 ?????...	This thread	Refback	23.06.2009 05:24
Mobile01 ??????????m4/3 ?????...	This thread	Refback	23.06.2009 05:08
Mobile01 ??????????m4/3 ?????...	This thread	Refback	23.06.2009 05:07
Mobile01 ??????????m4/3 ?????...	This thread	Refback	23.06.2009 04:03
Mobile01 ??????????m4/3 ?????...	This thread	Refback	23.06.2009 03:46
Mobile01 ??????????m4/3 ?????...	This thread	Refback	23.06.2009 03:42
leica ?? system ??????....... - ????? - ??? Olympus camera Hong Kong users forum ???? ???? ????? - Powered by Discuz!	This thread	Refback	23.06.2009 02:41
Petites infos sérieuses en provenance du forum Leica	This thread	Refback	22.06.2009 21:34
Petites infos sérieuses en provenance du forum Leica	This thread	Refback	22.06.2009 21:09
¼g¯u°g - °Q½×°Ï	This thread	Refback	22.06.2009 20:22
¼g¯u°g - °Q½×°Ï	This thread	Refback	22.06.2009 19:40
Petites infos sérieuses en provenance du forum Leica	This thread	Refback	22.06.2009 18:52
¼g¯u°g - °Q½×°Ï	This thread	Refback	22.06.2009 18:47
Petites infos sérieuses en provenance du forum Leica	This thread	Refback	22.06.2009 18:33
¼g¯u°g - °Q½×°Ï	This thread	Refback	22.06.2009 18:29
Petites infos sérieuses en provenance du forum Leica	This thread	Refback	22.06.2009 17:28
Petites infos sérieuses en provenance du forum Leica	This thread	Refback	22.06.2009 17:27
Leica m8: primeras imagenes - Página 171 - OJODIGITAL	This thread	Refback	22.06.2009 17:22
Leica m8: primeras imagenes - Página 171 - OJODIGITAL	This thread	Refback	22.06.2009 16:02
Leica m8: primeras imagenes - Página 171 - OJODIGITAL	This thread	Refback	22.06.2009 15:15
Leica m8: primeras imagenes - Página 171 - OJODIGITAL	This thread	Refback	22.06.2009 15:12
leica ?? system ??????....... - ????? - ??? Olympus camera Hong Kong users forum ???? ???? ????? - Powered by Discuz!	This thread	Refback	22.06.2009 15:11
Leica m8: primeras imagenes - Página 171 - OJODIGITAL	This thread	Pingback	22.06.2009 14:51
Transcript of the Q&A session with Stefan Daniel \| Leica Rumors	This thread	Pingback	22.06.2009 05:46
¡°áâ¿¨£¬ËÉÏÂºÍÎ¢43¡±¼°Î´À´¼Æ»®... - 4/3ÏµÍ³¼°Micro4/3ÏµÍ³ÌÖÂÛ - 4/3ÉãÓ°ÂÛÌ³ \|4/3ÏµÍ³\|O¼ÇÒ»×å\|Èý·ÖÖ®ËÄ\|°ÂÁÖ°ÍË¹\|olympus\|EÏµÍ³\|4/3ÏµÍ³\|ËÉÏÂ\|áâ¿¨\|ÊÊÂí\|¿Â´ï - Powered by Discuz!	This thread	Refback	22.06.2009 02:01
¡°áâ¿¨£¬ËÉÏÂºÍÎ¢43¡±¼°Î´À´¼Æ»®... - 4/3ÏµÍ³¼°Micro4/3ÏµÍ³ÌÖÂÛ - 4/3ÉãÓ°ÂÛÌ³ \|4/3ÏµÍ³\|O¼ÇÒ»×å\|Èý·ÖÖ®ËÄ\|°ÂÁÖ°ÍË¹\|olympus\|EÏµÍ³\|4/3ÏµÍ³\|ËÉÏÂ\|áâ¿¨\|ÊÊÂí\|¿Â´ï - Powered by Discuz!	This thread	Refback	22.06.2009 01:42
Business Topics Leica and mFT - Fourthirdsphoto Forum	This thread	Refback	21.06.2009 22:05
There will be no Leica R10, say hello to Leica M9? \| Leica Rumors	This thread	Refback	21.06.2009 10:40
There will be no Leica R10, say hello to Leica M9? \| Leica Rumors	This thread	Refback	21.06.2009 08:59
Leica M9 rumor links \| Leica Rumors	This thread	Refback	19.06.2009 15:34

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