Future of the R system

[bindrar]

Originally Posted by pelikan1931

why not giving up making body and instead concentrating making lens? if zeiss can team up with cosina to make lens for Nikon mount, perhaps Leica can too. The installed base for Nikon camera is certainly huge enough. perhaps time for forget about pride and be realistic.

And also john_f with his info about Zeiss.

This is also what I was thinking. How much does a camera body cost and how much do the lenses cost - I guess most people have at least 3 times more money invested in lenses than the body.

Leica should realise it is a lens manufacturer who also make cameras and work to their strengths. They could start selling lenses as Tokina, Sigma and Tamron do, in different lens mounts. Due to their current manufacturing techniques they may not gain in economies of scale - but their financial stability would increase - unless of course there is a sigificant increase in investment for the production.

[leicar7]

Re: Leica Lenses for Nikon Bodies

Isn't the lens flange-to-film plane distance smaller (shorter back focus) on Nikon's bodies than Rs? If so, wouldn't that be a problem for existing R lenses, or could the issue be resolved with an adapter that provides the correct distance?

[telyt]

Originally Posted by bindrar

Leica should realise it is a lens manufacturer...

This has been argued countless times. It's in the archives. I'm sure Leica realizes who and what they are, much more than those of us without direct access to Leica's financial and engineering data.

Originally Posted by leicar7

Isn't the lens flange-to-film plane distance smaller (shorter back focus) on Nikon's bodies than Rs?

The Nikon flange-to-capture plane distance is .5mm shorter than Leica-R. That's not enough space to fit an adapter.

[manolo]

The full frame circle has 3.17 times more area than the 2/3 rectangle of the current DMR sensor. If you use the same pixel size as the DMR for this circular sensor; you could have a 31mp sensor to use with the existing collection of R & M lenses.

If the pixels can be squeezed together more; we could have a 35mp circular sensor for all existing and future Leica 35mm lenses.

...and this would give a new meaning to the word RAW (you could crop the image for the different type's of output's that could be needed.

Or not crop at all.

And of course you could have different focusing screens with the 2/3 , 4/3 or square crop.

[rob_x2004]

I dont understand. What would happen to viewfinder optics and coverage? You are presuming entirely new cameras? R8/9 redundant?

[stunsworth]

Rob it would have to be. The mirror, mirror box, shutter and prism would all have to be much bigger to allow for the square format. A non-starter IMHO.

[manolo]

The next digital R camera will be entirely new. But what is important is the history of all the R & M lenses that could still be used.

[bono0272]

Originally Posted by stunsworth

Not necessarily so. I use Leica R lenses on my full frame Canon 5D without any vignetting issues - although the widest lens I use is 20mm.

The Leica R lenses are actually designed for full-frame format (film), so even the R10 is a full-frame digital machine, all the R lenses should still be applicable.

My concern is: for those users that already purchased the DMR, will they switch to the R10, if it is a full-frame, by further investing another huge amount of money?

Once Leica launches a full-frame DSLR, the price of the DMR would drop dramatically. If I already own a DMR and I design to switch to the full-frame R10, I am almost 100% certain that I will not touch the DMR again. And it is pretty sure that the R10 will not cheap. The DMR is already EURO 4000+, and it is just a digital back, what would you expect the R10 will cost? And how many of you will put the EUR 4000 DMR aside for just using it 3 years and then invest another EUR 5000 - 6000 for the R10?

In my opinion, the future of the R system depends on how does Leica attract those existing R users to switch to digital. There will not be many C or N brands users switch to the Leica due to the amount of investment.

[telyt]

Originally Posted by bono0272

... how many of you will put the EUR 4000 DMR aside for just using it 3 years and then invest another EUR 5000 - 6000 for the R10?

I'm willing to bet there will be a good market for used DMRs so it's not like the net cost of the DMR is EUR 4000.

[Lucklik]

Originally Posted by stunsworth

Rob it would have to be. The mirror, mirror box, shutter and prism would all have to be much bigger to allow for the square format. A non-starter IMHO.

The only real problem could be the mirror vignetting and probably only with long telelenses.
Prism and shutter can be bigger.
I'm convinced that with clever mirror movement, the mirror can be bigger then he us at the moment at the moment.

rgs

Luc

[Lucklik]

If I would buy a R10, I would prefer a R with the dimentions of the R4.
And with film, no sensor.
Perhaps I should buy a R4.
Luc

[manolo]

Leica a la cart:

1- M/R10
- An M camera with a 43mm diameter circular 36 megapixel sensor and a large circular viewfinder that would let me see outside of the frame lines for most lenses.
- In-camera anti-shake optional system.

2- Visoflex IIII
- With a circular mirror to use all the R lenses with interchangable focusing screens to have different crop-lines

3- a 21mm f1 lens that could focus as close as 15 cm from sensor with grate resolution wide open (no size limit)

[manolo]

I am starting to feel like Galileo Galilei

[stunsworth]

I would put money on the R10 being a housed in a very similar body shell to the current R9. The more I use my R8, the more I like the shape of the body and the layout of the controls.

[rob_x2004]

Here is hoping they come up with something more sensible, from the swimming pools on the top of the thing they recess the controls in, to the exposed electrical contacts in the bottom, and from the vent in the front to channel water into the case which is supposed to be a preview slide to the LCD on the back that behaves like a water filled snow mobile so you can see the high tide line, from the ventilation on the outside to let dust into the film chamber to the webbing and flanging construction inside that makes it a fragile delicate but oversized beast and channels water into the viewfinder so you have to shoot blind for three days on end. And you reackon the DLux2 has a crappy veiwfinder.

Hopefully the R10 will have a nice shutter release, with a detent that matches the exposure lock, and is angled so you dont have to wrack your grip, ergonomics that are, a high level viewfinder that actually is, strap lugs that dont have to go between fingers, a multiple exposure that does not get shifted into position because it is right under the joint of your shutter release finger and gets shifted when you turn the camera from landscape to portrait an exposure meter you dont actually have to take your eye away from the frame to actually read a program that will allow the camera to function when the stupid ISO gold contacts in the film chamber get dirty dust seals and........

Has anyone got this far because I can go on?

Hopefully some older heads at Leica will prevail and they will actually remember the R mount bayonet so we dont have to use an adaptor for the R lenses.

Bucket of .... , it sells MPs for them.

It fightens small children.

There was this German bloke on the riverboat and I had to explain I didnt hate all Germans and .. that no I wasnt carrying a medium format camera into the middle of no where.

[masjah]

Rob

Can I take it then that you are not too keen on the R8/R9?

[manolo]

1 vote for water seal

[albertwang]

Full frame and focus confirmation. That's all that we really need for improvements.

Otherwise it's perfect the way it is. In fact, I hardly expect the R to go at all. It's wonderful the best way that it is.

[stunsworth]

Rob, but apart from that were you happy with the camera?

[cpclee]

As much as I like the R system, if the R10 doesn't have focus confirmation I'll need to switch to something else.