Which 50mm Cron?

[BobPS]

Hi guys,

Currently I'm using my MF nikkor 35mm to get a feel on how it feels to use only 35mm lens. I do this cause I'm thinking about getting a 35 mm ZM biogon. And I find that it's quite difficult for me to get used to 35mm lens. Granted I'm only on my 3rd rolls of film right now, and maybe after several more rolls I'll be more familiar with it.

But I find that many times I wish it was 50 mm lens. I have the 50mm lens with me in the bag, but since I had decided that I will shoot exclusively with 35mm lens (again to familiarize myself with 35mm lens), I didn't (don't) change lens.

Now, following Jaapv's suggestion I went and check Ffordes' site. In their site there are two black 50mm summicron (highlighted as "just in" ). One is priced at euro 399 and the other is at euro 599. Which one should I get?

Judging from the pictures and the little knowledge I have on leica lenses, I'm guessing that one is type 3 rigid and the other one is type 4 rigid. Am I correct here?

I also check leicashop's site (LeicaShop Vienna), and they also have several 50mm lens. Would I be better off getting one from fforders, or from leicashop?

I try to avoid buying stuff from overseas cause I hate the import duty, but in this particular case, the price of the lenses from overseas are much, much cheaper than buying one locally.

Of course, the lenses that are "available" locally are new lenses so they're much more expensive, but even then the stores don't have any leica lenses in their stock, it has to be ordered. And the other thing is, so far I haven't been able to find used leica lenses here There's a used one available locally, a 90 mm summicron at approx euro 1100, but at the time being I don't need a 90mm lens.

Thanks in advance,
Bob

[Michael Hiles]

I know nothing about these shops in particlar. However, I think that the condition of the lens is the first issue. I would look for the one in the best shape - i.e. no fogging, scratches, smooth focusing etc.

I use a V2 rigid summicron which is fabulous. Unless all your pictures are on a tripod using the highest resolution film etc. etc., I think that the added "quality" of the v3 or v4 will be unobservable. Concentrate on top condition - that will be the most important variable. Keep in mind that you are making pictures - not testing resolution.

[wda]

Bob, I agree with Michael's advice. I have the 1966 version (whatever that one is) and the results have never left me wanting a later version. However, buying blind from abroad is a gamble so far as quality description is concerned. While you have a money-back guarantee, it is frustrating having to return goods if they do not meet your expectations.

I have dealt with Ffordes who are good honest dealers and thoroughly recommended. Whoever you settle for dealing with, I would ask some searching questions on relative condition of the lenses offered; even asking for email pictures at a higher magnification than you are able to view on their website. Good dealers want to keep well satisfied customers. Good luck in your choice.

[luigi bertolotti]

I bought many times from Leicashop (even selling something to them, sometimes), and I can assure you they are top people, that's to say if they say lens is "perfect", it's really perfect, if they say it's "clean" it's not perfect, but unscratched and unfoggy, if they say "tiny scratches on front lens" you'll find them, tiny...
And regarding which Summicron 50 to choose... well, apart the rectractables, which are delicate lenses, if a Summicron is in top condition, it is always an excellent lens : I have two, both of the '60s, one of them is a near focusing version (the so called "Dual Range") which is absolutely the 50 I like more.

[christer]

Sorry to have to say this, but I see that a number of shops that sell high value goods list countries to which they do not ship and Indonesia is often among those listed.

[alun]

The key difference between the two lenses on the Ffordes' website -- from whom I have bought quite a lot of stuff, btw, and had nothing but positive experiences -- is in the ergonomics. The earlier (cheaper) version has a focusing tab and no dedicated focusing ring; the later (current by the look of) has a focusing ring but no tab.

In my experience this is not a minor difference. Folks seem to love or hate the focusing tab arrangement....

regards

[wizard]

Originally Posted by BobPS

I went and check Ffordes' site. In their site there are two black 50mm summicron (highlighted as "just in" ). One is priced at euro 399 and the other is at euro 599. Which one should I get?

Actually, that's 399 and 599 pound sterling, not euro. And even with the pound getting weaker and weaker these days (against the Euro at least), that does make a difference.

Optically, both lenses are very good. It will be hard for you to tell the difference. If you prefer a thinner lens with tab, go for the cheaper of the two, if you prefer lenses without tab and with built-in lens hood, then go for the other one.

Andy

[BobPS]

Thank you very much to every one of you guys.

@ Michael: I bet I would find it difficult to tell the difference in the lenses ... that is if I could see the differences, which I doubt I can

@ David : I've sent emails to both stores asking for more informations on the lenses. When I hear from them I let you guys know ... and ask more questions :-)
The leicashop has a more detailed grading I guess, they have this A or A/B grading so I can get a better idea of the condition of the lens.

@ Luigi : thanks, I guess I wont' go wrong with either stores.

@ Christer: I never thought about the possibility that they may not want to sell to an Indonesian. I never have that problem, but that's possible Oh well ...

@ Alun: Thanks I didn't know about the focusing tab and focusing ring, I'll do more reading on this matter.

@ Andy, thanks for clarifying that the price is in poundsterling.

Thanks,
bob

[alun]

Bob --

There is also a discussion of Summicron 50/2s here:
Leitz Summicron or Leica Summicron 50mm f/2 - Photo.net Leica and Rangefinders Forum

cheers

[jaapv]

Originally Posted by Michael Hiles

I know nothing about these shops in particlar. However, I think that the condition of the lens is the first issue. I would look for the one in the best shape - i.e. no fogging, scratches, smooth focusing etc.

I .

I have no connection with ffordes, being just a satisfied csutomer. But you can depend that any lens they sell is as described or (usually) better. If they sell a lens they will bring it in top condition first, that goes for commission sales as well. And they have a generous return and guarantee policy.

[farnz]

Originally Posted by BobPS

... And I find that it's quite difficult for me to get used to 35mm lens. ...

Bob,

If you're having trouble adjusting from a 50mm to a 35mm lens my advice would be to get closer to your subject.

Sometimes that feels a little uncomfortable because you may be mentally used to shooting from a set distance but it is quite achievable if you approach your subject in the right way.

The first instinct is to be secretive and hope you don't get noticed but in my experience this doesn't help because people quickly pick up on your unusual behaviour and notice you anyway. Try to be as open as possible and look and act like you have every right to be doing what you're doing and people will respond better and often after they've decided you're not a threat will ignore you and leave you to get on with taking pictures. Oh, and a smile usually helps too.

Pete.

[BobPS]

Hi guys,

Got a good news from leicashop, they do take order from Indonesia, so there shouldn't be a problem. As the 50 cron at ffordes' .. well they've already gone.

I have more question. I called again one local store here just to make sure that they actually don't have any leica lenses in their stock. Turned out this particular store has one 50mm f/2.5 Summarit in their stock (they also have 75 summarit in their stock). And the price .... it's cheaper than the price of the 50 cron at leicashop. After adding shipping cost and import duty (if my estimation of the import duty is correct, i.e. 25% and not higher) of the 50 cron, the summarit is still, at least, euro 75 cheaper.

edit: I forgot to add that the price compared is between the one that's euro 590 (1986 cron with B/A condition) and a new summarit.

I think you guys know what my question will be: should I get the Summicron or the newer summarit ?

Thanks again,
bob

[wizard]

Originally Posted by BobPS

I think you guys know what my question will be: should I get the Summicron or the newer summarit ?

Do both lenses come with lens hoods? The 1986 Summicron did not have a built-in lens hood, and neither does the new Summarit. I would go for the brand new lens if it was cheaper than the used one. Unless of course you really need the half f-stop that the Summicron is faster, which I doubt. The new Summarit is a compact and very competent lens, flare reduction will likely be better than with the Summicron.

Andy

[BobPS]

Hi Andy,
The cron comes with a hood while the summarit does not.

As for speed, half a stop difference won't really matter to me, cause in low light I prefer to use a flashlight anyway. Whether I use my canon DSLR or nikon FM2. I carry a flash light (430EX or SB22) and a Demb flash diffuser with me all the time. It's always ready in my bag.

Thanks,
bob

[farnz]

Originally Posted by BobPS

... As for speed, half a stop difference won't really matter to me, cause in low light I prefer to use a flashlight anyway. ...

What about isolating subjects with shallowness of field?

Pete.

[BobPS]

Originally Posted by farnz

What about isolating subjects with shallowness of field?

Pete.

Hi Pete,

For me, f/2.5 will be enough.
My most used lens is canon 24-70L, it's an f/2.8 lens, and I never have problem isolating the subject from the background at f/2.8 ... as long as the background is not too close to the subject or I can control the lighting. In low light, since I prefer to use flash, isolating the subject is, IMO, easier.

Even when I use 85 f/1.8 or 50 f/1.4 or 35 f/2, I usually close the aperture down to f/2 or smaller, usually it's smaller. Frankly the main reason I seldom shoot wide open is because I do not trust my camera's AF system (a 30D), and wide open, the DOF is too narrow to my liking. I don't really like portrait where only the eyelashes of the subject is in focus while other part of the face is out of focus

One of the reasons I want to get an M camera is because I want to have a manual focus lens with nice DOF scale. And not many companies make lenses which, IMO, have nice DOF scale. I won't have to use DOF preview, I simply have to look at the DOF scale on the lens to determine the in focus and the OOF area. This had lead me to think about and finally decided to get a Leica range finder

Thanks,
bob

[luigi bertolotti]

Originally Posted by BobPS

Hi guys,

Got a good news from leicashop, they do take order from Indonesia, so there shouldn't be a problem. As the 50 cron at ffordes' .. well they've already gone.

I have more question. I called again one local store here just to make sure that they actually don't have any leica lenses in their stock. Turned out this particular store has one 50mm f/2.5 Summarit in their stock (they also have 75 summarit in their stock). And the price .... it's cheaper than the price of the 50 cron at leicashop. After adding shipping cost and import duty (if my estimation of the import duty is correct, i.e. 25% and not higher) of the 50 cron, the summarit is still, at least, euro 75 cheaper.

edit: I forgot to add that the price compared is between the one that's euro 590 (1986 cron with B/A condition) and a new summarit.

I think you guys know what my question will be: should I get the Summicron or the newer summarit ?

Thanks again,
bob

Interesting and difficult to answer question... Summicron is a legendary lens, no doubt, but Summarit is NEW, and this IS a difference... no experience with Summarit 50, but my 75 is great... mechanically, old Summicrons are probably better, but I wouldn't be surprised if a 50 Summarit at 2,8 is more satisfying than a 20 years old Summicron at same aperture.... I confess that I have a sort of passion for chrome lenses... ... should the Summicron be a chrome one, I'd choose it just for this...

[JBA]

Just to confuse the question further, you could always opt for a 50 Elmarit collapsible if you don't need speed but value compactness.

[lct]

Originally Posted by JBA

Just to confuse the question further, you could always opt for a 50 Elmarit collapsible if you don't need speed but value compactness.

You mean Elmar i guess. The current one is very contrasty. More so than the Summicron with tab referred to above. Different beasts. I own and like them both very much.

[JBA]

Originally Posted by lct

You mean Elmar i guess. The current one is very contrasty. More so than the Summicron with tab referred to above. Different beasts. I own and like them both very much.

Sorry about that, yes. I've never used one, but have been tempted by the most recent version. More contrasty than the Summicron would be very contrasty indeed.

I have a current 50 Summicron as well as a version 2 Summilux and love them both. Would also love to get a 50 asph and Noctilux if I ever recover from the sticker shock. So many great choices in the 50 focal length!