Steven Lee joins Leica

[michael_boylan]

A very interesting, and upbeat, article in today's Sunday Times.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...5-2382461.html

Good to see the M8 getting some coverage in a mainstream publication.

[sdommin]

After reading the article, it seems to me that this could be good news or it could be bad news for Leica. Hopefully, Mr. Lee is not just another marketing pinhead who cares about nothing more than the bottom line. I became very suspicious when I read that the only reason he owned a Leica was as an investment, not as a photographic tool.

[abrewer]

Hmmmm...a Board Member.

I'm guessing that he also has an executive position in operations as well, in addition to sitting on the Leica Board.

I did read one thing, though, that is essential for Leica (at least for Leica in this country):"...he wants to beef up the retail operation..."

It's painful for me to tell you that there's no dealer routinely stocking the brand in a conservative, midwestern city of a million and a half people, and that the closest Leica dealer is a small retailer in pastoral Muncie, Indiana. I've been told its Leica's "stocking requirements" that have killed them in the past with the shop-owners. Maybe Mr. Lee can turn that around and get product back on the shelves in the stores.

Good luck, Mr. Lee.

Thanks.

Allan

[lambroving]

Hmmm... Soccer moms with M8's? I don't THINK so. If he thinks digital is a lot more than a way to make tools for pros and and build sales in that segment to save the bottom line... If he doesn't understand M glass images on slides or negative... If he can't see the magic... To increase Leica sales in BOTH segments, the advertising has to stress quality and artistry in the images a Leica can make, not just in the quailty of the gear.

Most soccer moms of today will have no images of their children by the time they are out of college anyway IMO.

[mikej]

Like Allan, we have only one "stocking" dealer in the Washington, D.C. area, and only a partial stock at best. Leica needs to make these products available to potential buyers so that they can see and touch them in person. The M8 looks great, but I'll have to go out of state to see one - not likely. The other new products, C-lux, D-lux, V-lux, and D3, also need to be shown and available so that a new generation of buyers can learn the value of the brand, and why a premium price is justified over a range of price points.

Mr. Lee has a big job in front of him. We who know Leica can help inform him regarding the existing, loyal buyer base. But, it will take a coordinated marketing effort to build sales and that means, most importantly, getting the product in front of the new buyers. I wish him success.

Cheers,
Mike

[lambroving]

Nothing worse than putting a few bits of Leica gear in the hands of a clueless dealer. THAT does not help Leica. Stocking requirements and product training and enthusiasm are essential. Leica needs to drive demand by carefully targeted advertising. Only then will a dealer see the need and profit potential and make the commitment.

[overgaardcom]

Just in case - her is the article as PDF

[albertwang]

I presume a relative of Bruce Lee?

Okay, bring him on then!

[spylaw4]

Originally Posted by lambroving and mikej

Nothing worse than putting a few bits of Leica gear in the hands of a clueless dealer. THAT does not help Leica. Stocking requirements and product training and enthusiasm are essential. Leica needs to drive demand by carefully targeted advertising. Only then will a dealer see the need and profit potential and make the commitment.

The other new products, C-lux, D-lux, V-lux, and D3, also need to be shown and available so that a new generation of buyers can learn the value of the brand, and why a premium price is justified over a range of price points.

These are both highly relevant and related points. Some targetted adverts are gradually beginning to appear. But IMHO it is the more affordable products that are going to expand the user base and lead users onward to the premium items as they begin to appreciate just what a Leica can do.

Although I did own a Leica many many years ago it is only now that I have returned to the brand that I am really discovering the imaging potential and even considering returning (at least partially) to film!

Maybe there is a case for expanding the dealer base in a two-tier setup - Leica Dealer (C,D,V-lux + D3) and Leica Specialist Dealer (all those plus M,R etc.)? The affordable products do however need to have demonstrably "added value" over their Pana/Oly equivalents.

[andybarton]

Originally Posted by mikej

Like Allan, we have only one "stocking" dealer in the Washington, D.C. area, and only a partial stock at best. Leica needs to make these products available to potential buyers so that they can see and touch them in person.

Likewise in the North West of England, in my experience.

One can phone any number of Official Leica dealers and none have much stock. Leica were, according to the dealer from whom I bought my DMR, insisting that they stock around £40,000 worth of kit. That's a huge investment on something that doesn't walk out of the door on its own, like a 350D or a Sony Alpha

BTW, what is a "Soccer Mom"?

[lambroving]

Brian,

Very sensible approach!

[earleygallery]

I'm assuming 'Soccer Mom' is USA English for Footballers Wife?? Mr Lee must have seen Victoria Beckham using her D2.

Well the guy is aware of the Leica brand, already owning several - even if as collectables - and may have the commercial nous to grow the brand. IMO I doubt he thinks 'Soccer Moms' will use M8's or DMR's but he recognises that they need to use the brand values to leverage their sales of the digicams, just as Nikon and Canon do.

Until recently Leica only made 'pro' gear. It was the introduction of the Mini p&s 35mm cameras that started them down the path of 'consumer' products - they too were made by a 3rd party.

I think if Leica continue with products like the M8 and DMR then the serious photographers shouldn't be too worried (not that I'm saying the PanaLeica's aren't worthy of serious photography!!).

It will also be a natural progression for Leica to introduce a wholly unique digicam range at some point, but right now it makes commercial sense for them to share the Panasonic platforms.

Regards

[vinnie]

Originally Posted by andybarton

Likewise in the North West of England, in my experience.

One can phone any number of Official Leica dealers and none have much stock. Leica were, according to the dealer from whom I bought my DMR, insisting that they stock around £40,000 worth of kit. That's a huge investment on something that doesn't walk out of the door on its own, like a 350D or a Sony Alpha

BTW, what is a "Soccer Mom"?

"Soccer Mom" is a suburban mother of soccer(football) playing children. She usually spends entire weekend driving kids arround town in "Mommobile" so they can play the game.
She also gets refresments and meals for the entire team. God bless them!

[stunsworth]

Originally Posted by lambroving

Hmmm... Soccer moms with M8's? I don't THINK so. If he thinks digital is a lot more than a way to make tools for pros and and build sales in that segment to save the bottom line.

William, when he refered to soccer mums he didn't as I recall mention the M8 - that's _your_ personal interpretation, and dare I say bias creeping into your response - I agree that it would be an unusual camera to use for general football shots be they 'soccer mums' or professionals. Yes there is a place for a rangefinder camera at a football game, but it tends to be close up wide angle shots that the type of photograph best served by a long lens. When he refered to soccer mums I ssumed that he was refering to their Panasonic rebranded diditals rather than the M8.

If _you_ think digital is just the domain of professional photographers I can only think that you haven't been to a camera shop, or looked at the various manufacturer's offerings recently. Digital, whether you like it of not, dominates the p&s market, the SLR market and dare I say the mobile phone market. To try and pretend that this is a market only of interest to professionals means that I have either misunderstood what you are saying, or you have misunderstood the reality of where the market currently is.

I love film, my personal circumstances mean that I haven't shot any this year, but I also recognise that digital provides a solution that many, many, people are happy with.

[lambroving]

Steve,

The M8 is a pro camera designed for M-using pros who are sick and tired of just making a living with DSLR's. Ask almost anyone other than Sean who has used one. Of course, Leica would be happy if all the rich dentists bought them too! 20,000 is better than 10,000.

Read this excerpt again:

“Leica is the play toy of a lot of well-to-do people who are steeped in the Leica tradition,” said Lee. “Now we need to reach people who could and might use a Leica. I use the example of the American ‘soccer mums’ who would love to take better pictures, who are the keepers and recorders of their families’ history. It’s not the men. These are well-to-do families interested in excellent photography. They are our new potential customers.”

To this end he wants to beef up the retail operation and offer a clear brand image. The first Leica boutique in the company’s red-and-black colours has opened in Berlin.

The greatest problem for Leica has been its inability to compete with the explosion in digital photography.

Now, with the launch of the M8, a digital version of the famous M series begun in 1954, the company believes it has a camera that combines all the qualities of a Leica film camera in a digital format."

Digital is the popular domain of people with no prints!

"Best Buy" is not a good recommendation for Lee. I doubt you'd like to buy your Leicas at Tesco's.

[abrewer]

"Soccer Mom" is more of a demographic of well-off suburban American families with school-age children in my perception. It also encompasses "Soccer Dad" who is usually white, upper middle-class, well-paid and able to afford luxuries like the better imported cars, big-screen TV's and (hopefully) Leica's!

Have to add to what William says that in my view it's not having any product to show and sell, rather than botching a sale, that's the problem in the field. I'd very much like to see new Leica-owners who bought at Best-Buy coming here to this Forum for the help they need and can't get from the (generally) dull salespeople at the big box stores.

Thanks.

Allan

[stunsworth]

William, Leica sell more than the M8 - they sell rebranded mass market p&s cameras. A soccer mum would be far more likely to buy one of these than an M8 or a DMR.

Most M8s will be sold to amateurs who can afford to buy them. I have met and spoken to many M users in Europe, I would estimate that 90% of them were amateurs. The days of an M being a predominately professional camera are long behind us. How many M users on this forum would you estimate as being professional?

The idea that people who own digital cameras don't have prints made falls apart a little when I go into any Jessops in the UK and see machines willing to take memory cards and interface with a Fuji Frontier lab to produce the prints. Last time I went in they were being used.

[jmr]

My advice to Soccer Moms - Get a C-Lux, it's a great little Leica.

[albertwang]

actually I've used a Panny for pro work when I did get away with it... Honestly I would anticipate a day when the M8 can be sold at Best Buy. I have no problems with that since they sell the D200 and 5D over there too!

[lambroving]

Steve,

Let's not beat this to death, but I have four pros as clients and all own and use Leicas for personal stuff, Hassy and Sinar and Linhof for work. They have to be well-heeled to be buying my stuff. It may come as a shock to you, but pros don't come to the Leica Forum much. They are out making $$$.

How many pros do you know? I only know about 20, but I don't make a living with pictures. I'm fairly friendly on a personal level with maybe five here who will buy M8s. As M-users they are not fussed about having to take the v/f from their eye to change ISO's either. Just not the "M way", and that IS Leica's take on the matter.