Noctilux - fungus

[Ivar B]

A couple of weeks back I sent a Noctilux belonging to a friend of mine to Solms for cleaning, but I just had the sad news that due to fungus the lens was beyond repair. Apparently there is a special lab in Hamburg which could kill the fungus, but the damage to the glass would still be there and the problems would probably be back and replacement of lens elements would be too costly.

I had another recommendation which I had not thought of before - Leica Customer Service said that a lens with fungus should not be stored together with other lenses and really not mounted on a camera at all, because the fungus would spread and destroy other lenses as well. This is perhaps obvious, but it did not cross my mind as being so obvious and one sometimes read about people using or selling lenses with "moderate" fungus.

[patashnik]

Well, a $6000 paper weight it is, then... Seriously - I feel for your friend.

[luigi bertolotti]

.... now it's clear why they made that special wooden box for the special series of "last Noctiluxes" ... they had done better to offer it before...

The reccomendetion of Leica Customer Service makes one have horrible nightmares... the silent spread of malicious fungus througout inarrestable contamination of Leica gear... a good subject for some horror B-film...

[Ivar B]

I am an economist and not a biologist so I do not know anything about how this fungus grows or spreads. I am certain that Leica Customer Service does, however, so if not quite horror movie dimensions, it at least tells us to stay away from lenses with fungus. Worst there is, apparently.

[dynax9]

First of all, I am so sorry for what'd happended to the lens.

Secondly, from a biologist's point of view, if a type of fungus is capable of growing inside a lens, then it is very likely for it to spread to other similar environment(s) - such as lenses next to it. All the fungus needs to do, is to spread the fungal spores in a enclosed space, with a bit of moisture to help with. The initial infection was actually some sort of nature selection in a rather unusual environment..

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On a side note, maybe you could try to sell it. Who knows? Maybe it would sell really well? Since some buyers will probably never use it after they have bought it, fungus or not makes no difference....

[Perspectics]

Okay, you will likely not understand this thread because its German http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-...-aber-wie.html but its of interest to you. I don't want to translate everything but the take-away is that fungus can be fought. For example fungus doesn't like heat, so an oven at 180 degrees Celsius for some time can help. They mention other ways to get rid of it. Don't give up! Yet. And if you do - send it here, I'd like to try

[luigi bertolotti]

Originally Posted by dynax9

First of all, I am so sorry for what'd happended to the lens.

Secondly, from a biologist's point of view, if a type of fungus is capable of growing inside a lens, then it is very likely for it to spread to other similar environment(s) - such as lenses next to it. All the fungus needs to do, is to spread the fungal spores in a enclosed space, with a bit of moisture to help with. The initial infection was actually some sort of nature selection in a rather unusual environment..

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On a side note, maybe you could try to sell it. Who knows? Maybe it would sell really well? Since some buyers will probably never use it after they have bought it, fungus or not makes no difference....

To be sincere... this for me has been sometimes TRUE...

[Ivar B]

Originally Posted by Perspectics

Okay, you will likely not understand this thread because its German http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-...-aber-wie.html but its of interest to you. I don't want to translate everything but the take-away is that fungus can be fought. For example fungus doesn't like heat, so an oven at 180 degrees Celsius for some time can help. They mention other ways to get rid of it. Don't give up! Yet. And if you do - send it here, I'd like to try

I speak German quite fluently (after having lived and studied in Kiel) so I read the thread. Interestingly, Zeiss says that they do not accept any fungus lenses for repair, due to the fear of contamination. Anyway, this lens is not mine so ut will be up to my friend what to do. Actually, I sent a 2.8/135 to Leica as well and it turns out the problem is the same, but throwing away that lens is less of a problem that with a Noctilux ( I did not pay anything for it!)

[Perspectics]

Yes, at least its not your money going down the drain - lucky! I wasn't trying to say fungus can be fixed in every case, I just meant to say it can be killed in a kitchen. It depends on how the lens a glued whether they withstand the temperature needed, or not. If it were my Noct and CS told me to dump it I'd give it a try, that's for sure.

[Ivar B]

Originally Posted by Perspectics

Yes, at least its not your money going down the drain - lucky! I wasn't trying to say fungus can be fixed in every case, I just meant to say it can be killed in a kitchen. It depends on how the lens a glued whether they withstand the temperature needed, or not. If it were my Noct and CS told me to dump it I'd give it a try, that's for sure.

I will put this to the owner. In this case, killing of the fungus is apparently just the first move and afterwards the lens elements need cleaning. Opening a Noctilux and putting the elements back in can probably only be done by Leica.

I wondered if older lenses are more susceptible to fungus infection than newer ones? Obviously just the number of years in service add to the probability of infection, but I cannot recall having seen any modern lenses with fungus, even if they have been used in humid conditions.

[Ivar B]

Incidentically, Leica writes:

"wir haben in Ihrem Objektiv leider einen Fungus festgestellt. Das Objektiv
müsste zunächst nach Hamburg um den Pilz zu beseitigen (Kosten ca. 250,-).
Da sich die Linsen nicht reinigen lassen müsste die Optik komplett erneuert
werden, in diesem Fall wäre eine Reparatur aber unwirtschaftlich."

Clear message.

[Perspectics]

Okay, but still - does your friend use the Noct with the M8? Then some residues on the sides of the lens won´t do any harm because they are unused.

[Hookeye]

Ivar, two questions

First question relates to the risk for the rest of us:
Do you know how this unfortunate Nocti has been stored? Do you know its history? Has it been in the tropics or has it contracted fungus here in Europe?

Second question: Fungus can be killed by irradiation. Would it be an idea to send it to someone who could blast it with gamma radiation? At least it should be able to stop further deterioration - or not? At least irradiation should be less risky than temperature.

[Ivar B]

Originally Posted by Hookeye

Ivar, two questions

First question relates to the risk for the rest of us:
Do you know how this unfortunate Nocti has been stored? Do you know its history? Has it been in the tropics or has it contracted fungus here in Europe?

Second question: Fungus can be killed by irradiation. Would it be an idea to send it to someone who could blast it with gamma radiation? At least it should be able to stop further deterioration - or not? At least irradiation should be less risky than temperature.

I am afraid I do not know much about the history of this lens. There has been at least 3 owners over the last few years. Just killing the fungus is not a complete solution - the lens elements need to be cleaned also. As you can see in the message from Leica, they are indeed suggesting that it is possible send it to a special service facilty in Hamburg to kill the fungus, but the lens elements can still not be cleaned . Probably this prcedure is just necessary to kill off all remaining fungus in the mount etc. How they actually do this, I don`t know.

I don`t think there is a great risk of contamination under normal conditions. I have seen fungus on many old Summicron 50 (which seems very susceptible?) and the last one I saw before this incident was a relatively recent 90 Tele-Elmarit (slim). I saw some R lensesa for sale on eBay now and I was somewhat interested in buying one as I need an old R 2/50 for collection purposes, but after having been reminded of the contagious nature of this problem, I most certainly will not bid. It is not that uncommon with older lenses, and one needs to examine older lenses carefully by shining a light or something through the lens from both sides.

[budrichard]

I can't tell you for sure the cause of fungus on lenses but I never store my Leitz/Leica lenses in any leather case nor do I now use any leather case for old or newer Leica/Leitz equipment. -Dick

[Olsen]

I frequently go to Singapore and Malaysia. Here fungis is a great problem. That you and your friend should have problems with fungis here in Norway is very little likely. Bad luck! My remedy is to store the photo gear in the car through a very cold night. - Or in a deep freeze.

[jaapv]

How are the results of the lens as it is? Killing the fungus, having it cleaned as far as possible and using it might be an option. Maybe not up to Leica tolerances any more but it might be a worthy user lens.

[Ivar B]

Jaap,

Yes, this might be an option. I think my friend is considering this also, although there is apparently the danger that fungus tends to return.

[leitz_not_leica]

There is fungus among us.

[darkness30]

Ivar hello,
Humidity seems to be main problem, I store my lenses with those silica bags. They remove moisture from the environment, at least from the storage bag. Turkey is pretty dry in the central parts and humid among the coastal parts still I use silica.
I am sure your friend can kill, clean and use that beautiful nocti and still be happy about the results since it is a Leica.
Best,
Mehmet