Noctilux - fungus

[jc_braconi]

Originally Posted by leitz_not_leica

There is fungus among us.

Most inside of us !
The fact that blowing air breath to clean lens can be dangerous !

[brianv]

The most common way to kill fungus is Ultraviolet light. Remember those "Black Lights" when you were a teenager?

That can kill the fungus. It is usually acid from dead fungus that mars the coating and glass. Most often, I've had luck cleaning it out with ammonia. This includes a Summitar and coated Sonnar. I would look around for a lens repair shot, and look into having it polished and recoated in the worst case.

Welcome to Focal Point - Lens Repair, Lens Cleaning, Camera Repair

[kenneth]

This is an horrendous story- your worst nightmare. Tell me, is fungus a problem with only Leica lenses? I have never come across it before. As someone already mentioned, Leica now sell the lens in a humidor box as used for cigars so maybe they should take some responsibility for Noctilux lenses not supplied as such. And would silica gel prevent the problem? I wish your friend well in resolving his problem

[kenneth]

Originally Posted by jc_braconi

Most inside of us !
The fact that blowing air breath to clean lens can be dangerous !

That is a really good point and we all do it. I say we, I certainly do it, but not anymore. Thank you for that

[JBA]

There's a shop in Kawasaki, Japan that can clean lenses of fungus and re-polish and re-coat them. The text is only in Japanese, unfortunately, but the part of interest states that they can repair all lens types and polish them within acceptable tolerances.

Of course, some lenses may be too far gone. If Solms couldn't do it, perhaps it can't be done.

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(Sorry for the strange looking link. Don't worry. It works.)

[earleygallery]

Fungus can affect any lens, not just Leica!! Its maybe not mentioned so much with some other lenses as they would probably not be worth the cost of repair and just thrown away.

I have heard the advice regards not using/storing the lens with other equipement etc., but also that leaving the lens in direct sunlight for some time can kill the fungus (the UV working again).

From the OP it sounds like the lens elements were considered to be cloudy/hazy hence sending it for cleaning but it turns out that its fungus not haze (am I correct?).

I would either try the UV treatment first then find a local repair shop who will clean it (are you sure that only Leica can service Noctis' ?) or list it on e bay - with a description of the fault! - and see what it fetches.

[Kaneo]

Before buying my Leica-Equipment I researched a lot about the "Funghi" Problem, a simple fact stayed in my mind (I don`t know how true this is, but I´d like to mention it here. However it makes sense):

Like any creature, the funghi needs something to live from, and in lenses there are two possibilities: Radioactivity and Material that is used in the coating. Older lenses have very little (sometimes even more ) amounts of radioactiv elements in their glas-compostions. In the 70ties the production of this kind of glas-compositions stopped. Also the Coating-Material was changed in this time (Leica and Zeiss). Thats the reason why mostly older lenses have the "Funghi" problem.

That`s why I don`t see any problem using and storing an older Leica-Lens with Funghi beside newer Lenses. Because of other Materials they can not be affected. And for the Camera it should not be a problem at all.

Greetings from Vienna, Kaneo

[robert_parker]

Originally Posted by Kaneo

Before buying my Leica-Equipment I researched a lot about the "Funghi" Problem, a simple fact stayed in my mind (I don`t know how true this is, but I´d like to mention it here. However it makes sense):

Like any creature, the funghi needs something to live from, and in lenses there are two possibilities: Radioactivity and Material that is used in the coating. Older lenses have very little (sometimes even more ) amounts of radioactiv elements in their glas-compostions. In the 70ties the production of this kind of glas-compositions stopped. Also the Coating-Material was changed in this time (Leica and Zeiss). Thats the reason why mostly older lenses have the "Funghi" problem.

That`s why I don`t see any problem using and storing an older Leica-Lens with Funghi beside newer Lenses. Because of other Materials they can not be affected. And for the Camera it should not be a problem at all.

Greetings from Vienna, Kaneo

That's a fascinating insight Kaneo but I would hate to be the one to test it....

[kenneth]

As commented, it rather blows the idea, recommended by many to fit a UV filter on the front of the lens to protect the front element, out of the water if in fact UV burns away fungal growth. However, I for one will continue this practice as doing so saved a Nikon lens from expensive damage when it came in contact with rock on Scafell some years ago

[brianv]

I always use a UV filter- normal shooting conditions will not stave off the Fungus. Long exposure in direct sunlight or use of a UV lamp is required. I wonder if the UV lamp would bleach out Yellowed Glass as well? Might try it on my Pentax 50/1.4 Super-Tak.

As far as "Leica Only"- no, this week it was a Zeiss-Opton 50mm F1.5 Sonnar that had cotton like threads in it. Cleaned out well, not enough residual damage to have any effect.

[SJP]

Zapping the fungus with a UV lamp sounds like a good idea but with older lenses the lens resin-bonding stuff (whatever it is called) might become yellow? Maybe this is also the cause of some of the older lenses giving a slight color cast (my summarit 35 has that - still its a great lens, with an 'old fashioned' look). Modern bonding materials are probably designed not to yellow in UV or under slow oxidation so in that case using a UV lamp would not have any detrimental effect. But these lenses are not fungus food anyway.

The yellowing of some lenses (the radioactive ones with thorium) I think is due to to internal radiation damage (creation of color centres & other solid state defects). I don't think UV would have any impact on that.

[brianv]

The Thorium-glass yellowing can be bleached out by leaving the lens in direct sunlight for several days. This workewd well on my early Summicron. I'm wondering if the UV lamp would do the same thing. One way to find out.

[ErikFive]

Ok. My lens.

The pics from the lens looks just the same as my other Nocti that I had. Even with a flaslight you cant see much there. There is a couple of small spots inside it and I know that it has been the way it is for some years. It hasnt gotten worse. The lens produces the same pics as any other Nocti out there without more flair so I was very surprised that this was Leica´s verdict. The lens is therefore still very usable so I will of course do more research on how to kill fungus. I have read that its possible several other places and since it still produces great quality Nocti images I dont see it needing a expensive Leica cleaning as long as you kill the fungus or use it on a single camera. Since it has been this way for several years already I dont see that it would get worse anytime soon either as long as it is stored correctly. I might just put it on ebay with the whole story and see if anyone wants to buy it.

[flowminator]

Originally Posted by Kaneo

Before buying my Leica-Equipment I researched a lot about the "Funghi" Problem, a simple fact stayed in my mind (I don`t know how true this is, but I´d like to mention it here. However it makes sense):

Like any creature, the funghi needs something to live from, and in lenses there are two possibilities: Radioactivity and Material that is used in the coating. Older lenses have very little (sometimes even more ) amounts of radioactiv elements in their glas-compostions. In the 70ties the production of this kind of glas-compositions stopped. Also the Coating-Material was changed in this time (Leica and Zeiss). Thats the reason why mostly older lenses have the "Funghi" problem.

That`s why I don`t see any problem using and storing an older Leica-Lens with Funghi beside newer Lenses. Because of other Materials they can not be affected. And for the Camera it should not be a problem at all.

Greetings from Vienna, Kaneo

Hmm??? Can you explain to me how radioactivity should feed fungus? That is nonesense...

[pgk]

I've had fungus on other (not Leica - actually Nikon and Tamron and not that old at the time) lenses which I've had trouble getting repaired (this was as a result of living on a small island for a while!). One repairer told me that one problem was that if the fungus reappears within the repair warranty period then the lens has to be defungussed again under warranty and since fungus apparently can reappear quite quickly (or then again maybe not at all!), this may be one reason why some repairers are unhappy about dealing with it. Fungus may also leave residual damage (etching) which again may affect optical performance (increased flare) and again cause problems which may be difficult or very expensive to solve. I had the lenses I had problems with cleaned successfully and they were fine afterwards.

The solution is to find a repairer who will attempt to deal with the fungus and then change the way the lens is stored since its probable that poor, humid storage is why it started in the first place. This should stop reoccurence.

[earleygallery]

Originally Posted by kenneth

As commented, it rather blows the idea, recommended by many to fit a UV filter on the front of the lens to protect the front element, out of the water if in fact UV burns away fungal growth. However, I for one will continue this practice as doing so saved a Nikon lens from expensive damage when it came in contact with rock on Scafell some years ago

Not at all, in 'normal' use its not going to make any difference. But if a lens is affected by fungus prolonged continual exposure to UV is meant to help kill the fungus off. If you tired that with the lens on the camera you'd burn holes in your shutter!!!

[ErikFive]

Seems I might be lucky. Talked to John Van Stelten and seems like he has done the job many times before on Noctis. :-)