Disgusting?

[andybarton]

George.

They have stopped making this model, so the last 100 are being packaged up like this. Basically, this is a "reverse fire-sale" to get rid of them before the new ones come through in September.

Normal stock will be hard to find, I would imagine. (They always have been in the past, from what I read here)

[Speenth]

Originally Posted by bill

It's business.

I wouldn't buy one, but then I am not in the target demographic. And neither are you, or your nephews. None of us will be buying a Maybach either, I'll wager, but I'm not jumping up and down calling Mercedes names for bringing it out.

And I think you will find that it's a dehumidifier, not a humidor. The box alone accounts for nearly 40% of the price.

Regards,

Bill

Bill,

You're right of course, none of us (including my nephews) fit the target demographic. But that's my case - I'm concerned that Leica are chasing the wrong demographic - the pimp one they went after a few years ago when they started 'a la carte' (and that didn't lead anywhere good and just exposed Leica to ridicule).

PS: Its a humidor - that's what they want it to be. A humidifier would be boringly pedestrian.

Enough! I've had my rant and I'm off to buy a Kazakhstan oil well and a struggling London footie team so I fit the Leica demographic.

[Craftsman]

Originally Posted by bill

It's business.

I wouldn't buy one, but then I am not in the target demographic. And neither are you, or your nephews. None of us will be buying a Maybach either, I'll wager, but I'm not jumping up and down calling Mercedes names for bringing it out.

And I think you will find that it's a dehumidifier, not a humidor. The box alone accounts for nearly 40% of the price.

Regards,

Bill

$6400.00 for the box? As a cabinetmaker,I'd like to get a piece of that market. One a month would be just fine for me.

[dpattinson]

Heh... they could up the margin even more by using window glass in them, since the buyers are unlikely to ever know.

Actually, the idea that someone is subsidising Leica by paying way over the margin for a 'special' noctilux makes me smile. There should be more of the stuff, not less - that way they could afford to keep the prices lower for the users. "I'm sorry sir, but you're too rich for a regular M8 - you'll have to purchase this gold-plated one..."

If you really want to ensure a healthy number of second hand M8's reaching the hands of students one day - do them a favour and gouge your name in the top plate... oops - I guess that's 'non-collectable' now

[jimmy pro]

Originally Posted by Gareth2

Why is it disgusting to collect Leicas and not artwork for example?

Who said its disgusting to collect Leicas? What's disgusting is Leica makeing "instant collectibles", because it undermines there image as a dead-serious top-grade camera company...which BTW is why they came to be collectible in the first place, instead of just another 50's relic you can find at flea markets for $1 a box.

[Speenth]

Originally Posted by jimmy pro

Who said its disgusting to collect Leicas? What's disgusting is Leica makeing "instant collectibles", because it undermines there image as a dead-serious top-grade camera company...which BTW is why they came to be collectible in the first place, instead of just another 50's relic you can find at flea markets for $1 a box.

Spot on! I hope Leica is reading this.

[lct]

Originally Posted by jimmy pro

...What's disgusting is Leica makeing "instant collectibles", because it undermines there image as a dead-serious top-grade camera company...

Leica has always done this as far as i recall. Want to see my nice M6J and its totally useless wooden box? Does not undermine anything IMHO.

[charlesphoto99]

What I want to know is what Leica is going to do with that extra $100K?

Hire a few more service techs and/or streamline the service dept?

Put it into r&d so the next products are better...and hopefully cheaper.

Or maybe fund a totally off the mark ridiculous flash web campaign?

[darkstar2004]

Originally Posted by Speenth

No. Its offensive, tasteless product placement.

We who are passionate about photography and technical excellence, but not quite up to buying Chelsea Football Club just yet, are the future of Leica. However, promotions such as this send the message that we're not the kind of customer Leica values (even though we're loyal to the brand for all the right reasons and there are many more of us than there are wealthy oligarchs).

Recently Leica quietly offered the first production M8 to the Westlicht Gallery in Vienna to be auctioned, proceeds to charity. Hardly a peep was heard about this and a great promotional opportunity was missed. Through this auction Leica could have promoted worldwide, the excellence of its first digital product. It could have demonstrated the esteem the M8 already engenders in the minds of the discerning photography community (evidence being the high reserve set and the high price realised at auction). Through this auction the opportunity arose to show that Leica is a caring and proud company, in tune with its customers and generous in its actions.

Best of all, this auction offered the basis for a campaign aimed at a new, more youthful audience. For sure, a well-off youthful audience, but with a different outlook on life. This new generation would value a new, philanthropic attitude from a formerly stuffy old company. But, when they see Leica-bling promoted in handmade cigar boxes they see the old elitism reinforced ... I know, I asked my nephews, already talented photographers and already, aggressively dismissive of Leica.

I truly don't care about the lens in a humidor. I care about the mindset at Leica that thinks this is a good way to promote the Leica brand in the 21st Century.

To one and all who obviously missed the point I was trying to make, please see the above.

Thanks for your post, Speenth; you explained what is at issue much better than I did. And thanks for "getting it."

I am an imagemaker who does not have bales of $1000 bills to burn, who has always worked for a living and who truly cares about the Leica brand, the future of the company and photography as a whole. I find Leica's groveling before the billionaire oligarchs of the world - while turning its back on yours truly and 99.9% of the members of this forum and Leica M photographers as a whole - extremely distasteful.

Such money-based elitism is obnoxious and dismissive of the imagemakers who have been Leica's bedrock up to this point. JMHO.

If Leica were to continue to manufacture and sell the "normal" Noctilux alonside the "Pharohs of Egypt" Noctilux, I wouldn't have uttered a peep - but they have chosen to not do so. That is the issue.

From the 3/2008 issue of LFI:

Dr. Andreas Kaufmann once brought Steven K. Lee on board; now he's fired him. He is optimistic about setting the company on the right course.

35, 50, 75 & 90 Summarits? Right course.

$16,000US "Pharohs of Egypt" Noctilux? Wrong course.

[george]

I have to admit that my first reaction approached a bit of mild disgust.

But it really is not my business and if Leica can make a quick million on people willing to pay for something they will never use - and make the company more financially steady at the same time - that must be fine with me.

It is really not different from folks with cash to spare having their names on concert halls, operating theatres and emergency wards. Their spending does not hurt us. But it might benefit.

And Leica certainly did not spend on this promotion much of the technical and support talent that we need .

Relax and take some pictures.

[Jamie Roberts]

Originally Posted by jimmy pro

Who said its disgusting to collect Leicas? What's disgusting is Leica makeing "instant collectibles", because it undermines there image as a dead-serious top-grade camera company...which BTW is why they came to be collectible in the first place, instead of just another 50's relic you can find at flea markets for $1 a box.

Well, I sort of agree, but then again, how on earth can closing out a 30+ year run of a lens design be called anything like "instant"? LOL!!

Leica does nothing instantly. I suspect the market for $6000 Noctis is over and done with; let them raise some $$ with their own RD, history, and design emphasis.

IOW, they may as well make some cash from the collectors for once. If they continue with new lens designs--and who says an improved Nocti is not in the new mix?--then this closing out of a venerable line does nothing to undermine their status as a serious photographic company, IMO.

[bill]

Originally Posted by Jamie Roberts

Well, I sort of agree, but then again, how on earth can closing out a 30+ year run of a lens design be called anything like "instant"? LOL!!

Leica does nothing instantly. I suspect the market for $6000 Noctis is over and done with; let them raise some $$ with their own RD, history, and design emphasis.

IOW, they may as well make some cash from the collectors for once. If they continue with new lens designs--and who says an improved Nocti is not in the new mix?--then this closing out of a venerable line does nothing to undermine their status as a serious photographic company, IMO.

Hoorah! Somebody gets it!

Regards,

Bill

[stevelap]

Originally Posted by Jamie Roberts

Well, I sort of agree, but then again, how on earth can closing out a 30+ year run of a lens design be called anything like "instant"? LOL!!

Leica does nothing instantly. I suspect the market for $6000 Noctis is over and done with; let them raise some $$ with their own RD, history, and design emphasis.

IOW, they may as well make some cash from the collectors for once. If they continue with new lens designs--and who says an improved Nocti is not in the new mix?--then this closing out of a venerable line does nothing to undermine their status as a serious photographic company, IMO.

I agree James and likewise with Andy's post above. A slight overeaction by Speenth and Darkstar 2004, imo.

I suspect that Leica would have found it difficult to shift the last few 'ordinary' Nocti, especially with rumours of a new model floating around the ether, so why not go the Limited Edition route to clear the stock and make a tidy profit at the same time?
Anyone in the market for a 'working' Nocti will still be able to find a used copy of the existing lens, or maybe buy the new model if the rumours turn out to be true.

[Eoin]

IMO it's very simple, if you want a Noctilux to shoot with, there are plenty on ebay in the €3000-€4000 range and there will continue to be a supply of 2nd hand lenses. If you want one for your private collection there are 2 options, a new bog standard one from a retailer (while stocks last) or one of these 100 offerings from leica. All nicely packaged and numbered. You pay your money and make your choice.

It's of little value to get your knickers in a twist over this, it's targeted at a very specific audience and for the very valid reason of the ending of the production life. It's about celebrating and commemorating the "life" of the Noctilux.

The only disgusting this about all this is, my relatives would never order a life size box such as this to celebrate and commemorate my passing . Perhaps a bit OTT IMO

[stevelap]

Originally Posted by Eoin

The only disgusting this about all this is, my relatives would never order a life size box such as this to celebrate and commemorate my passing . Perhaps a bit OTT IMO

[jimmy pro]

Originally Posted by lct

Leica has always done this as far as i recall. Want to see my nice M6J and its totally useless wooden box? Does not undermine anything IMHO.

Of course you're right, how silly of me. All I had to do was look at the rock-solid financials Leica enjoyed since your M6J was made in '94, up till just before the M8 and....oh, wait

Originally Posted by Jamie Roberts

how on earth can closing out a 30+ year run of a lens design be called anything like "instant"? LOL!!

LOL!! By putting those $6000 (already insane) lenses into $3000 cigar boxes (beyond insane) and then selling them for $16,000. LOL!!