Welcome to the Leica Camera Forum!

Cadfael_tex · 05/14/08, 12:35 AM

Hi, first post. I recently started more seriously into photography as a hobby after years of digital point and shoot family snaps when I brought out the Nikon F2 that I inherited from my step-dad. I'm having a blast.

I'm curious about Leica. I bought a book about outdoor photography last week and the author uses Leica. Also heard good things about it from other sources.

Bottom line question: where can I find a good primer here or elsewhere online to get me started knowing about Leica camera and lenses.

Thanks In Advance,
Tony

ehazeramsncom · 05/14/08, 12:52 AM

Google Irwin Putts. Viewpoint photography and image capture

jmr · 05/14/08, 12:56 AM

Tony,

hello - you could always start with Wikipedia and take it from there.

Cadfael_tex · 05/14/08, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmr

Tony,

hello - you could always start with Wikipedia and take it from there.

Very informative. I was surprised at just how much information there was on wikipedia. Another question - what are the best (for M, R, and screwmount) bodies to get started with - ie not terribly expensive but still give a good taste of what Leica can do?

Thanks,
Tony

earleygallery · 05/14/08, 02:25 AM

Hi,

That's pretty much impossible to answer. What are you expecting or hoping to acheive from using a Leica that you don't get from your current equipment?

Firstly remember it's the photographer that makes the image. It's not about what a Leica can do, it's what you can do.

Leica are really about the lenses. The camera bodies are superb of course but the lenses render the image.

A screw/M Leica is a totally different camera to an R. Each have their own strengths and weaknesses and the only person who can decide which is best is you. Many of us - me included - use both systems.

All that said, for general all round use, a Leica R3/R4 and 50mm Summicron lens or a rangefinder such as an M2 and Elmar are good relatively inexpensive first steps into Leica IMO.

Cadfael_tex · 05/14/08, 02:41 AM

My current camera system is fine but I don't have much invested in it. I guess what I'm looking for is rugged and expansive system that I can grow into. I'm drawn to the Leica's because they offer what the F2 does - rugged, simple, mechanical. I'm looking at the M bodies and R bodies and trying to weigh what each offers uniquely.

storybrown · 05/14/08, 04:49 AM

James has given excellent, fail-safe pointers. You can't go wrong with his suggestions. But, if not an R3 or R4, maybe a Leicaflex SL body, also with the lens James pointed to. I believe all these are about the least expensive & also excellent entrys for SLRs; they're all rugged, and the SL has the best viewfinder ever, pretty much.

Similarly, for an M, I would start (well, I did start, and never have progressed any further) with a CL. It will take most M lenses, and its CL lenses are superlative.

Screwmounts are for serious people, in my opinion (because of the loading, mainly), and also very special people who are not only serious. (I have one with a broken shutter that won't load and another I can't really get the hang of loading, so I don't count either way.) But if you get going with any of the above, Rs or Ms, I would be willing to bet that you will wind up with a IIIf or IIIg somewhere down the line.

Good luck!

mike_h · 05/14/08, 07:58 AM

Hi Tony,

If you have an F2 without much invested in it then hang onto that for your reflex camera.

That means that if you're interested in Leica it will be the Leica M.

If you want a meter then at a modest price you could go for a M6 - either classic or TTL. If you have more to spend and absolutely must have aperture priority auto exposure then it has to be the M7, otherwise for the best Leica of modern times try the MP - but it will cost.

If you don't need TTL metering then I would go for an M4, M4-2 or M4-P, each a good camera and with the benefit of the rapid load system and because they are not so old then without some of the viewfinder issues of older cameras.

If you want a real tactile pleasure then try the M3 - limited viewfinder frames and some viewfinder issues in some examples. Also note that an M3 can be up to 54 years old. They are great cameras but even the best show their age in some small way - as do all of us.

More important is the glass that you put on the camera. All Leica glass is good - some is just better than others. It is too long a discussion to go through all the lenses, but in my humble any of the Summicrons (f2 lenses) from the last 30 or so years is a good start - probably in 50mm but perhaps in 35mm. Then you can add other focal lengths as you see fit and if you want to get a little carried away then you can look at the Summilux lenses from the same period (f1.4) or the Noctilux (50mm f1.0 in the latest variant). The modern Apo and Asph. lenses are superb but they cost money.

Many others will have much more detailed views than I do and much more in-depth knowledge. With a little care checking for obvious problems it's hard to go wrong as long as you shop wisely and don't splash your cash too liberally.

I started with an M4-2 and a 1970s 35mm Summicron and a 70s Tele-Elmarit, the thin version. Neither the camera nor the lenses are necessarily the best that Leica has to offer but they are each wonderful tools.

Happy exploration,

Mike

stuny · 05/14/08, 11:59 AM

Tony -

Welcome to the Forum.

I think you need to consider one more thing: Can you adapt to teh differences between rangefinder and SLR cameras? My colleague Keith (above) can, as can many other members of the Forum. I cannot. This suggests that you try to borrow or rent a rangefinder to use for a few days. If you can adapt to the different-than-SLR view on the world, consider rangefinders and SLRs. If not, just SLRs

kenneth · 05/14/08, 01:20 PM

Welcome to the group

I have used Nikon systems in the past and find them first rate, millions of pros testify to that. The Nikon F2 is a great camera which will yield superb images providing that is it has good optics up front. Something like an 50mm F 1.8 Nokkor but if you can afford it a 50mm F1.4 is truly astonishing, but getting back to Leica. Firstly, R or M system. The R system is more a versatile choice and R bodies and lenses are well priced on the second hand market at present and as has already been mentioned a 50mm F2 Summicron would be a good place to start. Leica lenses produce a different image to all Japanese lenses and I know people who do not get on with the Leica produced result especially if they have been brought up with Japanese optic. I suggest you try to get hold of something like an R4 with a 50mm F2 Summicron on loan and shoot a couple of rolls of your favourite film then you can decide if the Leica look is for you. If not then build up your Nikon system to suit your photographic style and enjoy. My drug of choice for what it is worth is aLeica R8 but I have had a Nikon F, F Photomic, F2as, F3HP, FM2n, all great cameras

zwicko · 05/14/08, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ehazeramsncom

Google Irwin Putts.

Well, I´d recommend Erwin Puts. Might be a more reliable source than "Irwin Putts".

http://www.imx.nl/photo/

Cheers, Z.

Perspectics · 05/14/08, 01:49 PM

My first encounter with Leica was here: Leica M8 Review: 1. Introduction: Digital Photography Review
There are some famous quotes such as that the tester didn't like the "tunnelview" of his SLRs anymore after having played with the M8. Anyway, good reading.
Welcome + Cheers, Claus

earleygallery · 05/14/08, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by storybrown

James has given excellent, fail-safe pointers. You can't go wrong with his suggestions. But, if not an R3 or R4, maybe a Leicaflex SL body, also with the lens James pointed to. I believe all these are about the least expensive & also excellent entrys for SLRs; they're all rugged, and the SL has the best viewfinder ever, pretty much.

Similarly, for an M, I would start (well, I did start, and never have progressed any further) with a CL. It will take most M lenses, and its CL lenses are superlative.

Screwmounts are for serious people, in my opinion (because of the loading, mainly), and also very special people who are not only serious. (I have one with a broken shutter that won't load and another I can't really get the hang of loading, so I don't count either way.) But if you get going with any of the above, Rs or Ms, I would be willing to bet that you will wind up with a IIIf or IIIg somewhere down the line.

Good luck!

Indeed, I forgot about the SL, fully mechanical unlike the electronic R3/4 I mentioned (the R6 is also fully mechanical but much more expensive).

The screwmounts are an acquired taste I guess, but like most acquired tastes, once you acquire that taste you really really like it

Another thought, if you buy a nice s/h Leica and don't like it for whatever reason, you'll probably sell it on e bay at no loss, so don't think too much about taking the plunge.

stunsworth · 05/14/08, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ehazeramsncom

Google Irwin Putts

Or better still Google Erwin Puts, here's his website...

Viewpoint | Photography and image capture: the Leica technique and philosophy by Erwin Puts | Erwin Puts

Perspectics · 05/14/08, 02:41 PM

Ups - I just realized nobody has yet mentioned Sean Reid at http://www.reidreviews.com/reidreviews/flash.asp
Well, its not free and it took a while until I was ready to spend the 30 something bucks for the subscription. Sean contributes to this forum a lot, you could also search for his posts and learn

rob_x2004 · 05/14/08, 03:24 PM

Screw the reviews. Fun time film would be m6classsic 35lens. No dollar worries an MP 35lens. Digital...um...ehhhhhhhhhhh...um...ehhhhhhhhhhhh.

Perspectics · 05/14/08, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob_x2004

Screw the reviews. Fun time film would be m6classsic 35lens. No dollar worries an MP 35lens. Digital...um...ehhhhhhhhhhh...um...ehhhhhhhhhhhh.

Opinions on reviews, film- and digital-Ms as well as the word "screw" vary on this forum.

rob_x2004 · 05/14/08, 03:33 PM

I need to borrow Imants one thousand laugh me tail off smilies

.

Perspectics · 05/14/08, 03:40 PM

FFF - full frame forum, from anal-retentive-perspectives to tail-off-laughers. I like it

offshore · 05/14/08, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cadfael_tex

Hi, first post. I recently started more seriously into photography as a hobby after years of digital point and shoot family snaps when I brought out the Nikon F2 that I inherited from my step-dad. I'm having a blast.

I'm curious about Leica. I bought a book about outdoor photography last week and the author uses Leica. Also heard good things about it from other sources.

Bottom line question: where can I find a good primer here or elsewhere online to get me started knowing about Leica camera and lenses.

Thanks In Advance,
Tony

Hi Tony and welcome. Leica has a test drive program going so if you have a local dealer that has a Leica distributorship you can take out an M8 and lens for a trial and get a idea of how you like rangefinder photography before you buy.

05/14/08, 12:35 AM	#1 (permalink)
Cadfael_tex Neuer Benutzer Join Date: 05/14/08 Location: Enterprise Posts: 10	Hello and Question Hi, first post. I recently started more seriously into photography as a hobby after years of digital point and shoot family snaps when I brought out the Nikon F2 that I inherited from my step-dad. I'm having a blast. I'm curious about Leica. I bought a book about outdoor photography last week and the author uses Leica. Also heard good things about it from other sources. Bottom line question: where can I find a good primer here or elsewhere online to get me started knowing about Leica camera and lenses. Thanks In Advance, Tony

05/14/08, 12:52 AM	#2 (permalink)
ehazeramsncom Neuer Benutzer Join Date: 10/26/02 Posts: 1	Re: Hello and Question Google Irwin Putts. Viewpoint photography and image capture Last edited by ehazeramsncom : 05/14/08 at 01:06 AM. Reason: adding data

05/14/08, 12:56 AM	#3 (permalink)
jmr Erfahrener Benutzer Join Date: 11/06/04 Location: Tintwistle Posts: 4,762	Re: Hello and Question Tony, hello - you could always start with Wikipedia and take it from there. __________________ John Reynolds johnreynoldsphotography.com

05/14/08, 02:25 AM	#5 (permalink)
earleygallery Erfahrener Benutzer Join Date: 06/29/06 Posts: 2,536	Re: Hello and Question Hi, That's pretty much impossible to answer. What are you expecting or hoping to acheive from using a Leica that you don't get from your current equipment? Firstly remember it's the photographer that makes the image. It's not about what a Leica can do, it's what you can do. Leica are really about the lenses. The camera bodies are superb of course but the lenses render the image. A screw/M Leica is a totally different camera to an R. Each have their own strengths and weaknesses and the only person who can decide which is best is you. Many of us - me included - use both systems. All that said, for general all round use, a Leica R3/R4 and 50mm Summicron lens or a rangefinder such as an M2 and Elmar are good relatively inexpensive first steps into Leica IMO. __________________ Regards, James www.earleygallery.com

05/14/08, 02:41 AM	#6 (permalink)
Cadfael_tex Neuer Benutzer Join Date: 05/14/08 Location: Enterprise Posts: 10	Re: Hello and Question My current camera system is fine but I don't have much invested in it. I guess what I'm looking for is rugged and expansive system that I can grow into. I'm drawn to the Leica's because they offer what the F2 does - rugged, simple, mechanical. I'm looking at the M bodies and R bodies and trying to weigh what each offers uniquely.

05/14/08, 04:49 AM	#7 (permalink)
storybrown Erfahrener Benutzer Join Date: 01/09/08 Posts: 131	Re: Hello and Question James has given excellent, fail-safe pointers. You can't go wrong with his suggestions. But, if not an R3 or R4, maybe a Leicaflex SL body, also with the lens James pointed to. I believe all these are about the least expensive & also excellent entrys for SLRs; they're all rugged, and the SL has the best viewfinder ever, pretty much. Similarly, for an M, I would start (well, I did start, and never have progressed any further) with a CL. It will take most M lenses, and its CL lenses are superlative. Screwmounts are for serious people, in my opinion (because of the loading, mainly), and also very special people who are not only serious. (I have one with a broken shutter that won't load and another I can't really get the hang of loading, so I don't count either way.) But if you get going with any of the above, Rs or Ms, I would be willing to bet that you will wind up with a IIIf or IIIg somewhere down the line. Good luck!

05/14/08, 07:58 AM	#8 (permalink)
mike_h Neuer Benutzer Join Date: 02/21/06 Posts: 15	Re: Hello and Question Hi Tony, If you have an F2 without much invested in it then hang onto that for your reflex camera. That means that if you're interested in Leica it will be the Leica M. If you want a meter then at a modest price you could go for a M6 - either classic or TTL. If you have more to spend and absolutely must have aperture priority auto exposure then it has to be the M7, otherwise for the best Leica of modern times try the MP - but it will cost. If you don't need TTL metering then I would go for an M4, M4-2 or M4-P, each a good camera and with the benefit of the rapid load system and because they are not so old then without some of the viewfinder issues of older cameras. If you want a real tactile pleasure then try the M3 - limited viewfinder frames and some viewfinder issues in some examples. Also note that an M3 can be up to 54 years old. They are great cameras but even the best show their age in some small way - as do all of us. More important is the glass that you put on the camera. All Leica glass is good - some is just better than others. It is too long a discussion to go through all the lenses, but in my humble any of the Summicrons (f2 lenses) from the last 30 or so years is a good start - probably in 50mm but perhaps in 35mm. Then you can add other focal lengths as you see fit and if you want to get a little carried away then you can look at the Summilux lenses from the same period (f1.4) or the Noctilux (50mm f1.0 in the latest variant). The modern Apo and Asph. lenses are superb but they cost money. Many others will have much more detailed views than I do and much more in-depth knowledge. With a little care checking for obvious problems it's hard to go wrong as long as you shop wisely and don't splash your cash too liberally. I started with an M4-2 and a 1970s 35mm Summicron and a 70s Tele-Elmarit, the thin version. Neither the camera nor the lenses are necessarily the best that Leica has to offer but they are each wonderful tools. Happy exploration, Mike

05/14/08, 11:59 AM	#9 (permalink)
stuny Moderator Join Date: 11/08/04 Location: New York Posts: 15,016	Re: Hello and Question Tony - Welcome to the Forum. I think you need to consider one more thing: Can you adapt to teh differences between rangefinder and SLR cameras? My colleague Keith (above) can, as can many other members of the Forum. I cannot. This suggests that you try to borrow or rent a rangefinder to use for a few days. If you can adapt to the different-than-SLR view on the world, consider rangefinders and SLRs. If not, just SLRs __________________ Stuart www.barbara-and-stu.com

05/14/08, 01:20 PM	#10 (permalink)
kenneth Erfahrener Benutzer Join Date: 05/09/08 Location: West Yorkshire UK Posts: 157	Re: Hello and Question Welcome to the group I have used Nikon systems in the past and find them first rate, millions of pros testify to that. The Nikon F2 is a great camera which will yield superb images providing that is it has good optics up front. Something like an 50mm F 1.8 Nokkor but if you can afford it a 50mm F1.4 is truly astonishing, but getting back to Leica. Firstly, R or M system. The R system is more a versatile choice and R bodies and lenses are well priced on the second hand market at present and as has already been mentioned a 50mm F2 Summicron would be a good place to start. Leica lenses produce a different image to all Japanese lenses and I know people who do not get on with the Leica produced result especially if they have been brought up with Japanese optic. I suggest you try to get hold of something like an R4 with a 50mm F2 Summicron on loan and shoot a couple of rolls of your favourite film then you can decide if the Leica look is for you. If not then build up your Nikon system to suit your photographic style and enjoy. My drug of choice for what it is worth is aLeica R8 but I have had a Nikon F, F Photomic, F2as, F3HP, FM2n, all great cameras __________________ "The only Zen you find on the tops of mountains is the Zen you bring up there" . Robert M. Pirsig- With Regards Kenneth

05/14/08, 01:49 PM	#12 (permalink)
Perspectics Erfahrener Benutzer Join Date: 09/12/07 Location: Zürich Posts: 539	AW: Hello and Question My first encounter with Leica was here: Leica M8 Review: 1. Introduction: Digital Photography Review There are some famous quotes such as that the tester didn't like the "tunnelview" of his SLRs anymore after having played with the M8. Anyway, good reading. Welcome + Cheers, Claus

05/14/08, 02:41 PM	#15 (permalink)
Perspectics Erfahrener Benutzer Join Date: 09/12/07 Location: Zürich Posts: 539	AW: Hello and Question Ups - I just realized nobody has yet mentioned Sean Reid at http://www.reidreviews.com/reidreviews/flash.asp Well, its not free and it took a while until I was ready to spend the 30 something bucks for the subscription. Sean contributes to this forum a lot, you could also search for his posts and learn

05/14/08, 03:24 PM	#16 (permalink)
rob_x2004 Erfahrener Benutzer Join Date: 02/18/05 Posts: 3,354	Re: Hello and Question Screw the reviews. Fun time film would be m6classsic 35lens. No dollar worries an MP 35lens. Digital...um...ehhhhhhhhhhh...um...ehhhhhhhhhhhh.

05/14/08, 03:33 PM	#18 (permalink)
rob_x2004 Erfahrener Benutzer Join Date: 02/18/05 Posts: 3,354	Re: Hello and Question I need to borrow Imants one thousand laugh me tail off smilies .

05/14/08, 03:40 PM	#19 (permalink)
Perspectics Erfahrener Benutzer Join Date: 09/12/07 Location: Zürich Posts: 539	AW: Hello and Question FFF - full frame forum, from anal-retentive-perspectives to tail-off-laughers. I like it