Noctilux - Buy Now or Wait?

[Agent M10]

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I've been thinking about buying a Noctilux. I've read most all of the posts on it, some other sites and the recent LFI article. I have a 35mm 2.0, but my eye seems more attuned to a longer aperture (the results with my 75 are great). Question is: If I want to buy the lens, do I go ahead and find one now or do I wait until Photokina to see what Leica might be introducing?

[stunsworth]

If you need the lens buy it now, if you just want it, wait.

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[bill]

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/barnack-s-bar/48955-smart-answers-dumb-questions.html#post516593

 

#25.

 

Seriously, if you want a 50, that's great. But the Noctilux is not just a 50. It is a light-hoover. That means compromises in other areas. Have you thought this through?

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[leicabug]

I havn't been following Noctilux for a few months now. How are the prices, new and s/h?

[marknorton]

Whether Leica will be producing another f1 lens is an open question but I think it's unlikely such a lens would be anything other than highly corrected - an optical tour de force - and might actually lose the character which makes the Noctilux special.

 

I have a Noctilux but would not rush to buy an f1 version of the Summilux ASPH - I need extra speed lower down the focal length scale - a 28mm or 24mm Summilux or a 21mm Summicron.

[spydrxx]

If you like it enough to consider buying it now, it doesn't seem relevant what might be introduced in the future. If you want/need it now, buy it now.

[Guest Lotw]

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What camera? M7 (or lower) or M8? I found a 50 on my M8 redundant above my 35 and my 75. You seem to be directed towards the most expensive 50, did you ever use this focal length on your M at all?

I do not know what you are expecting from Leica at the Photokina but if Leica will come up with another 50, which is highly unlikely, it will not be comparable with this Noctilux, just like the Summicron 75 or Summarit 75 is incomparable with the S'lux 75. It is more likely that Leica will come up with products that are interesting for a broader public, than with a very specialized lens with artistic value.

[rob_x2004]

The only reason you would buy a Noctilux is you like the look it gives...which is probably pretty much out of fashion these days.

Mark why would you want f/1 on a short lens? I doubt Leica could make it anyway, and whether the m8 would handle it.

[marknorton]

The only reason you would buy a Noctilux is you like the look it gives...which is probably pretty much out of fashion these days.

Mark why would you want f/1 on a short lens? I doubt Leica could make it anyway, and whether the m8 would handle it.

 

Agree with you that the Noctilux look is unlikely to be replicated in a new lens. We'd be moaning that the MTFs aren't good enough.

 

I didn't say I wanted f1 on a short lens. I said I needed extra speed lower down the focal length scale. That means I'd like an extra stop at the 21, 24, 28 focal lengths OR an FF camera to give a wider field of view with the existing lenses OR (preferably) both.

[rob_x2004]

Yea I dunno. I sometimes think chasing f/stop is less productive than chasing effective ISO. The current 35/1.4 is a pretty wild and tempremental sort of beast and I could see problems if it was carried through to shorter lens. I am not even sure they could do it. What sort of application would you use a shorter wider lens?

[peter_n]

If you really love the look of the current Noctilux get it now because it is only going to go up in price. If you think you might want to wait to see what Leica comes up with get a 50/1.4 ASPH now and some faster film. What you'll most likely get in the future (if they come out with it, which I doubt) is a 50/1.0 ASPH.

[marknorton]

Yea I dunno. I sometimes think chasing f/stop is less productive than chasing effective ISO. The current 35/1.4 is a pretty wild and tempremental sort of beast and I could see problems if it was carried through to shorter lens. I am not even sure they could do it. What sort of application would you use a shorter wider lens?

 

I agree the 35/1.4 is troublesome, and if Leica were ever to offer an M8-style upgrade for lenses, I'd like to see them offer a CLA for the 35/1.4 which addressed what is undoubtedly a problem of sample variation. They could start out by identifying why it is that chrome lenses seem to behave better than black lenses and the upgrade might, for example, have the lens elements remounted in a new barrel with, say, a glass type change for one of them.

 

As for faster wides, it's not just effective ISO but shallow (relatively) depth of field combined with a wider view. Elsewhere, we've been discussing the merits of the Nikon 28/1.4 on a D3 - equivalent to putting a 21mm Summilux (more or less) on an M8.

[rob_x2004]

Think they are probably on a better wicket with the summarits. That sort of thing likely to be better option for most. I dont really see the backfocus as anything more than manufacturing tolerance knife edge or incompetence depending on your point of view. The transition from highlights and what happens to your neg or digital file at he top end is probably the big issue. f/1.4 doesnt get you any more effective shutter speed, but Lux does buy you lighting up like a christmas tree even down at eight or sixteen.

 

I could show you a heap of examples of where a Lux ASPH bites you in the arse, I would like to see examples of where it really saves your bacon.

[Agent M10]

Given the fact that I've got the 75mm summicron and that is as sharp as sharp gets, I don't think that waiting for a 50 1.0 ASPH will be of any benefit. Also, I already have the R50 1.4.

 

One concern is the talk about the focus problem on the Noctilux. As I understand it, you have to refocus stopping down under 2.0. If that alone is the problem, then no biggie. If the focus problem is more than that, I might have more reservations. If someone could fill me in I'd appreciate it.

[marknorton]

The Noctilux suffers from focus shift as you stop down - the plane of focus moves faster than the boundaries of the depth of field so you need to learn to "nudge" the focussing a touch if you are working around f2 - f4. You might call it refocussing but you're working from experience with no focussing aid and the amount you need to nudge varies with both aperture and shooting distance. The Noctilux takes time and practice to use...

[pgk]

I sometimes think chasing f/stop is less productive than chasing effective ISO. What sort of application would you use a shorter wider lens?

 

I use Canon dSLRs as well as theM8. My most used Canon lens is their 24mm f/1.4 which I often use wide open. It has problems BUT produces the results I want of the subject matter I shoot (strongly delineated focus in spacious settings - an application where reduced noise at higher ISO won't help). If you don't have applications for which an untra fast wide is useful then you won't see need for it.. I'd be VERY interested in an 18mm f/2 M or faster or similar - but can't see it happening.

 

On the Noctilux question though, I too would say that if you need it buy it sooner rather than later, if for no other reason than you can then use it. Waiting for possibilities is an admission that the Noctilux is not really desperately needed .......

[rubenkok]

Hi,

Wait ! and see at the next Photokina !

All the best

Ruben

[Agent M10]

No, not desperately needed (what lens is?). The Noctilux is pretty pricey and it seems that it'd be wiser to buy now before price increases with the falling dollar. At Photokina Leica might introduced another 50/1.0, but if the 75mm does the job in the sharpness area, then why wait?

 

Thanks for the info on the focus shift. Sounds like it has been much ado about nothing.

[Guest darkstar2004]

If you really love the look of the current Noctilux get it now because it is only going to go up in price. If you think you might want to wait to see what Leica comes up with get a 50/1.4 ASPH now and some faster film. What you'll most likely get in the future (if they come out with it, which I doubt) is a 50/1.0 ASPH.

Either that, or it could disappear completely - at the current price of $5995 American, they can't be making & selling many of them.

 

I can't see Leica offering a Noctilux ASPH - it would have to sell for $1500 or more over the price of the current Noctilux. There's not a big market for a $7500+ lens, I would have to guess.

 

IMHO, if you REALLY want a Noctilux, get one now before the price goes up even further or before Leica stops making them. At $6000 US, it would have to be an "I can't live without it" kind of urgency for me to make that leap.

 

There's also the "Poor Man's Noctilux - Voigtlander | Nokton 35mm f/1.2 Aspherical M-Mount | 45BA236B have you considered it as an alternative? Just a thought (there is no substitute for the Noctilux - I know)...

 

I had this lens and sold it, as I have a 28/2 ASPH and considered it redundant. Now I'm kicking myself!

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[Agent M10]

Thanks, that's kind of what I've been thinking. I've followed a thread over at Rangefinder Forum with Rob who was in the last LFI with his nocti and I believe he's right - even at $6k it still is a bargain when you consider that it is a lifetime lens.