Advice to photographers in Uk (was "My fellow criminals...")

[simonpg]

The situation well reported by Amateur Photographer as well as daily press reports we get in Australia, is an OUTRAGE.

As an Australian I encourage British amateur pohotographers to organise themselves and demonstrate in the streets; blockade police offices, take up petitions and speak up for themselves.

In these disgraceful situations of ridiculous overreaction by authorities to normal everyday behaviour by law abiding citizens, the stronget possible fight back is essential for there to be any real chance of preventing this from getting worse.

Don't let the British photography sit back and feel defeated - FIGHT BACK!

[dhsimmonds]

Or emigrate, as many, many Brits are doing right now.

[odd]

What should say? :-)

mvh
OM

[andybarton]

Father-of-three branded a 'pervert' - for photographing his own children in public park | Mail Online

[earleygallery]

'One of the police officers told me that it was just the way society is these days. He agreed with me that it was madness.'

Confirmation that some Officers understand the law!

The next part did raise a smile though, given the headline,

The 39-year-old rubber consultant...........

At least he did the right thing and stood up for his - and our - rights. Well done that man!

[earleygallery]

I've had a response to my FOI request. Basically 'we don't hold this information' type of response, so I'll re-draft it and send it to the Metropolitan Police this time.

[ChrisC]

Well, I guess I'm 367. This is the most serious thread I have encountered in LUF, and it took some reading prior to posting this! My congratulations to previous posters, and to those who have been pro-active.

I think history shows us that when governments get into trouble they tend to erode the rights of citizens by increasing the powers of the State's agents; in this case the police. Regardless of misunderstandings by members of the public, security guards, or even police officers we in the UK did have the right to lawfully go about the business of making photographs in public places. I was always glad of that fact on the occasions I have been hassled [sometimes aggressively] when photographing with a view-camera,

The interpretation of amendments to the Terrorism Act effectively gives the police a catch-all trump up their sleeve to negate our rights if they so choose. Hard won rights, and presumption of innocence, battled for over centuries is trumped by the whimsical interpretation of the Act by police on the streets. So we have rights, as we always did, but not proper rights; because the trump card wipes them out. For the first time in my life, the power of the State frightens me. The religious fascists have a victory; our State is scaring us with what are effectively becoming Police-State powers.

Like so many in the UK, I feel betrayed by the Labour Government. If that wasn't bad enough, the country is sleep-walking to it's next Government of MacMillanesque Old Etonian, ruling elite, Conservative Party toffs. On the issue of lost rights, I fear for the UK's future and making photographs with 'one eye over the shoulder' might finally become our lesser problem.

For those outside the UK; Eton is a highly exclusive privately funded school for [mostly] privileged, wealthy families. Former Prime Minister Harold Macmillan packed his ruling Cabinet with Etonians.

................... Chris

[farnz]

Originally Posted by ChrisC

...I think history shows us that when governments get into trouble they tend to erode the rights of citizens by increasing the powers of the State's agents; in this case the police. ...

Chris,

I don't buy into a conspiracist notion; to my mind it's simpler than that. Politicians blundering about altering the balance of the law without realising that they've tipped the scales and the foot police earnestly, or at times over-enthusiastically, applying the law to suite situations that are fanned by invisible threats of terror as they see fit while failing to recognise, or ignoring, the personal freedoms that they've infringed in pursuit of Objectives set by their commanders.

Add a gaggle of under-trained but over-eager police community support officers who are keen to make their mark - and perhaps help themselves to 'comfy' future careers as real coppers - and you've pretty much got what we have today on the streets. Unfortunately the Home Secretary has now unwittingly (I hope!) indirectly sanctioned this intrusive behaviour.

I see little that's sinister but plenty that's just plain clumsy.

Pete.

[ChrisC]

Originally Posted by farnz

....I don't buy into a conspiracist notion........ Politicians blundering about altering the balance of the law without realising that they've tipped the scales.........I see little that's sinister but plenty that's just plain clumsy....

Pete - I'd like you to be right because blunderers can correct their mistakes when reasoned with. The House of Commons is packed with lawyers, as is the Government and their advisers; your explanation of blundering politicians seems overly forgiving to me. I think we are witnessing political cynicism being exercised against citizens rights. If I am wrong we should soon know - by the Amendments being satisfactorily amended.

Hell, we in the forum are only concerned with the issues relating to photography in public places, the implications the Act has for political protesters and activists is far more menacing.

..................... Chris

[andybarton]

What the hell is going on in this country?

(Apologies - it's a Daily Mail link, but even so...)

Photographing thugs 'is assault', police tell householder snapping proof of anti-social behaviour | Mail Online

[earleygallery]

Nothing's going on Andy

"And he claimed that a Police Community Support Officer sent to the scene promptly issued a warning that taking pictures of youths without permission was illegal, and could lead to a charge of assault."

The incompetents strike again! Really I'd love to have a run in with one of them.

[geoff]

One of the latest British incidences:

An amateur photographer was told she could not take snaps of an empty paddling pool because she might be a paedophile.

[flatfour]

How do you know someone is about to commit a murder ?

[farnz]

Originally Posted by flatfour

How do you know someone is about to commit a murder ?

Okay, I'll play : someone's just asked whether Leica should abandon the M8 in the M8 forum?

Pete.

[chris_livsey]

Originally Posted by farnz

Okay, I'll play : someone's just asked whether Leica should abandon the M8 in the M8 forum?

Pete.

No - that's suicide

[farnz]

Originally Posted by chris_livsey

No - that's suicide

Fair point, Chris.


Okay, time for an update on Austin Mitchell's Early Day Motion 1155 Photography in Public Areas:

The EDM now has 240 MP's signatures and stands 10th (on the number of signatures) out of a total of 2,289 EDMs.

If you haven't lobbied your MP to sign yet then I urge you to do so. It is very easy: simply click on this link: WriteToThem - Email or fax your Councillor, MP, MEP, MSP or Welsh, NI, London Assembly Member for free, use the tool to find who your MP is, use the website's email form to ask him to add his signature, and click the send message button. (You can also check on the link below whether he's already signed.)

Details of EDM 1155 are here: UK Parliament - Early Day Motions By Details

If you've never contacted your MP before then maybe now's a good time - after all, you pay his wages so why not get him to act for something you want for once! And once you've done it you can bother him about anything you want in the future. And it'll cost you nothing. (And you'll feel like you're making a difference. )

Pete.

[ChrisC]

About two hours ago I was photographing a carnival and fair in a public space. I was amongst thousands of people photographing be it with cell phones, slrs, or point and shoots. My last shots were of a fairground ride, I was in full view of up to a dozen police, after which I made to make my way home. Two police officers took it upon themselves to follow me; one offered that he had seen me taking photographs, the officer thought that what I was doing was 'unusual' and wanted to know why I was photographing, and who I was.

I offered that frankly, I felt insulted - given that I was going about my lawful business, in full view, in a public space.

It greatly disturbed me that I was stopped and questioned. There are more photographs to be made tomorrow but at this moment I am reluctant to go back. See; insidious, creeping censorship really does work.

And yet; I also know that what I was doing was none of their bloody business.

..................... Chris

[chris_livsey]

Always a good idea to ask, to make it polite, and note down their collar numbers. You can then follow it up with a polite letter to the Chief Constable setting out the circumstances and enquiring as to the value of allowing the constables under his direction to harass persons lawfully going about their business without good cause as you fail to see how taking photographs, along with everyone else doing so, is "unusual".

[spylaw4]

BBC 1 "The One Show" tonight - 1st item - catch it on iPlayer!

Includes the "Pool Ladies" etc.

[andybarton]

Phew...! That's me off the hook then