Advice to photographers in Uk (was "My fellow criminals...")

[spylaw4]

This is outrageous. And the response Andy got just shows how brain-washed some of us have become. There's quite a difference between an imminent murder and photography, although I suspect that the responder would retort that photography might simply be a prelude to later murder.

IIRC there was thread a while ago about a chap in Hull(?) who got nicked for innocently taking photographs - does any one know what eventually happened?

I can see all those hitlerian security guards (careful, Louis ) citing this poster as they try to stop legitimate photography.

I think I"m going to bring this to the attention of the civil liberties groups. Maybe we can all do so?

On a lighter note - at least they only used a P&S for the poster so perhaps the intellectually challenged might think it only applies to those little silver things.

On another lighter note - with all the tourists in London snapping away at anything and everything - maybe we should all start reporting loads of them to the police - now what was that latin phrase - reductio ad absurdem !

[Kasimir]

All this reminds me one more time of that guy in Mexico, who led the rebellion there some years ago. I think they were called Zapatistas or so. Don't blame me if it's the wrong guy. Anyway, important is what he said: After the end of communism and with the beginning reign of globalization, the world will become a prison with no way out. No free place left.
This makes me really sick in my stomach.
I really get the feeling that there is a war against freedom, only the frontiers are not so clear as our politians say they are.

[michael_boylan]

I hope 28 days detention before charge is enough for them to download the latest software for the M8, visit this forum and learn Eoin's crack to get Aperture working on M8 RAW files, and ascertain that the files contained therein are innocent.

Maybe 28 isn't enough, maybe they should be allowed detain us Leica users 43 days.

[michael_boylan]

Originally Posted by spylaw4

.

On another lighter note - with all the tourists in London snapping away at anything and everything - maybe we should all start reporting loads of them to the police

..........and demand receipts from the Met. Give 'em some more paperwork to do

[michael_boylan]

I think it is terrible that we allow our police force to terrorise the population like this. I think it should be illegal for them to incite terror in the populace. We need to come down strongly on this sort of terrorism. It should be stamped out, we need to take action, decisive action. We need to fight it.

I know, let's call it a 'war on terror'.

[michael_boylan]

I like this response.........

poster on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

[Nick De Marco]

Terrible advertising campaign. Good thread. Wasn't there some kind of photographers protest against this sort of thing a while ago? I missed it but was thinking we really should organise some events in London where we take photos outside Parliament or somewhere to demonstrate for the freedom to photograph without harassment, and we could take some nice photos at the same time and surely get media coverage by involving press photographers.

[stuny]

Attila - It was Franklin Roosevelt who said the only thing to fear is fear itself, though I can understand why you attributed to whom you did.

Guy & Bill - Since you mention Brazilians, and since others lay general blame on Blair & Bush, here’s a Bush joke involving Brazilians:

One of Bush’s staffers mentioned to the President, “Six Brazilian soldiers were killed in Iraq”. The President became morose, and after a minute looked up and asked his aide, “Remind me, how many are in a ‘brazilian’?”

[earleygallery]

It is outrageous, but this isn't the first campaign directed against photographers, there was another poster last year along the same lines.

They are also telling people to report anyone they see with more than one mobile phone. What planet are these idiots on? I usually carry two mobiles (work and private phones) and a camera so I'm prime suspect number one!!

A couple of things come to mind. Go up to Buck Palace, or Trafalgar Square, and phone the police everytime you see someone with a camera - sorry I'm not qualified to determine who's a terrorist and who's a tourist. I expect that in fact very few members of the public will actually report someone for taking photos but it gives the police such greater powers to stop and search people.

What next - terrorists wear jeans, report anyone you see wearing jeans?

Demand (as is you right) copies of CCTV footage from any camera you are filmed by on your day to day travels. Target public buildings (walk past waving at the camera) - the system will very quickly grind to a halt.

[bill]

This makes interesting - and worrying - reading.

Home Office | Police | Community Support Officers - Frequently Asked Questions

I have no issue with properly trained police officers. I used to have an inspector and a constable - father and son - in the family. I know what they go through to learn their trade. I still have a copy of Moriatry's Police Law - Seventh Edition (war edition) from when my grandfather was in the Specials during the war. I have an issue with "hobby bobbies" who, no matter how well-meaning - are no more experienced to make a judgement call than someone not wearing a yellow jerkin. How many recent cases have involved these PCSOs...?

Regards,

Bill

[zernikepolynom]

I can't comment about the UK, however I'm afraid something similar is happening in my country, where our minister of the interior is the chief paranoiac in charge. If I remember correctly I have been ranting about this in the bar before.

Insidiously if one get's infected with this way of thinking, all measures to increase security will never be enough, since there could always be done more. As in the old joke, where a man is running through the streets, clapping his hands. Asked about his behaviour, he responds this would be to shy away the elephants. "But there are no elephants around". "See, it's working".

Yes, there are terrorists out there. And if they manage to change our way of living, they have won their main battle.

Stefan

[andybarton]

Originally Posted by zernikepolynom

And if they manage to change our way of living, they have won their main battle.

Stefan

Too late. They already have.

[elansprint72]

Ah...... but when Mr Photographer's collar is felt, he can produce his Identity Card and thereby prove that he is a upright citizen! See- it all falls into place.


I am not a number, I am a free man...............

[spylaw4]

Originally Posted by elansprint72

Ah...... but when Mr Photographer's collar is felt, he can produce his Identity Card and thereby prove that he is a upright citizen! See- it all falls into place.


I am not a number, I am a free man...............

Oops! Now you are a number and definitely not free!

[farnz]

Originally Posted by andybarton

I posted a link to this dangerous nonsense on another, non-photographic forum (but one that has photographers as members)

This is a response:

"if you knew someone was about to commit murder...
wouldn't you report them?
i would."

To follow this logic and the logic of the police advertisement, anyone picking up knife at the dinner table should immediately be reported in case they intended to use it to murder someone.

Pete.

[farnz]

Perhaps the next advertisement will read:

THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE
WEAR BEARDS EVERY DAY

WHAT IF ONE OF THEM
SEEMS ODD?

Terrorists wear beards to help plan attacks, stroking them and making
notes about security measures like the location of CCTV cameras.

If you see someone wearing a beard, we need to know.
Let experienced officers decide what action to take.

Pete. Saddened by the seriousness and short-sightedness.

[andybarton]

Did I say that I'd emailed the Met?

Here's their response.... (at least they had the decency to respond with 24 hours, which has surprised me)

Expect to get stopped and searched.

-----------

Thank you for your e-mail and on-line complaints form.

The issue you raise is clearly a difficult one. We have to balance a genuine terorist threat, which concentrates on attacking transport networks but at the same time take account of the Human Rights of individuals like who want to take photographs or enjoy an innocuous hobby.

We want to encourage our officers to deter terrorists by challenging any behaviour which could be construed as suspicious and by the appropriate use of stop and search powers under s.44 of the Terrorism Act and it is not always easy to determine on sight, who is undertaking a legal activity and who is conducting surveillance for nefarious means. Sometimes it is better to be safe than sorry and this means that members of the public that frequent transport networks will sometimes be stopped and aksed to account for their actions. Human Rights seeks to balance the needs of society against the rights of individuals and we hope to get the balance right.

I will be raising your concerns, along with others that have been similarly expressed, with all of our police Boroughs to encourage officers at ground level to adopt a more sensible approach when considering whether to stop photographers and other Londoners who are in the vicinity of transport networks. I will also bring your concerns to the Counter Terrorism Command who are currently running campaigns asking members of the public to report suspicious activity.

I hope this is acceptable to you. There is no easy solution and I hope that the steps I take will make some difference.

Regards,

Mark Lawrence/ Detective Chief Inspector
Directorate of Professional Standards
Customer Service Team
(MetPhone 58335 | (Telephone 020 8785 8335 |
+ Address Jubilee House | 230-232 Putney Bridge Road | Putney | SW15 2PD
: Email: Mark.Lawrence@met.pnn.police.uk

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From: Web Editor - DCC10(3-4)
Sent: 05 March 2008 23:28
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Subject: Contact us - Send us praise or complaints c01-00000041


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Complaint type: Make a complaint
What happened?: Metropolitan Police Service - Counter-terrorism advertising campaign

Does this make everyone who takes a photograph in the street a terrorist?

Can I expect to be arrested if I take pictures in London now? Since when did it become illegal to take pictures in the street?

[jrc]

A question for those of you who live in the London area, has the local media picked up this program, have they commented on it, or asked any questions about it? What is the position of the major papers, or have they one?

[spydrxx]

Is this latest announcement a plot by digital camera photographers against film camera photographers, or vice versa?

[michael_boylan]

Originally Posted by andybarton

Thank you for your e-mail and on-line complaints form................ Sometimes it is better to be safe than sorry and this means that members of the public that frequent transport networks will sometimes be stopped and aksed to account for their actions.

This statement, straight from the horse's mouth, sums up the entire attitude in the UK at the moment. What ever happened to the doctrine of "better that 99 criminals go free rather than one innocent be locked up"?