Newbie question?? help

[BRUCELEE]

I'm new to the Leica world. I've been shooting film/digital for 15+years.
I would like to now join the prestigious world of Leica.
I am researching equipment and I have to tell you it's like speaking another language.
I am considering purchasing an M7 body a 35mm 1.4, 50mm f2, 135mm 2.8.
My question is: What is the difference between "SUMMILUX" and "ELMART" and "ASPH"?
I see huge price differences in pricing, why?
I want the best glass that I can get.

I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

Best regards,
michael
Tampa, FL

If you feel like calling please feel free: 813-835-7691
mrschuhmann@mac.com

[spylaw4]

This would be better in the Film Forum or even the Customer Forum where you'll get more answers. Perhaps a mod can kindly move this for you?

[Rona|d]

Done

[andybarton]

Welcome to the forum, Bruce.

Try doing a search here for "Lens names" or something similar. This is a regular question

[BRUCELEE]

Originally Posted by Rona|d

Done

where did you move it to?

[steed]

all are top quality. The difference is in speed. Elmars are slowest, 'crons are next (f:2) and summiluxes are fastest (f:1.2 or 1.4). ASPH is an aspherical element that many manufacturers offer. It is an expensive, complex shaped glass element that helps with light transmission.
Good luck with Leica. It will all be second nature shortly.
John W

[andybarton]

Originally Posted by BRUCELEE

where did you move it to?

The "Customer" section of the forum.

[spylaw4]

Ah that's better! I would add that Elmarits are 2.8 - just to fill in the gap!

[dikdik]

Originally Posted by BRUCELEE

I'm new to the Leica world. I've been shooting film/digital for 15+years.
I would like to now join the prestigious world of Leica.
I am researching equipment and I have to tell you it's like speaking another language.
I am considering purchasing an M7 body a 35mm 1.4, 50mm f2, 135mm 2.8.
My question is: What is the difference between "SUMMILUX" and "ELMART" and "ASPH"?
----------------------------
michael
---------------------------

Hello Michael,

welcome to the forum!

Understanding the principle of the different lens names in the Leica equipment it is very easy to see the quality of the lenses simultaneously.
The most important is the maximum aperture. "Summilux" means a lens with an aperture of 1.4. And there are different realizations of that lens. So, you can buy a wide angle Summilux (1.4/35 mm), a normal Summilux (1.4/50 mm) and a small tele Summilux (1.4/75 mm).
The names Summilux, Summicron, Elmarit or Telyt characterize the type of lens construction. A Leica Telyt is always a telelens.

Now there are different qualities of the lenses. Leica produces - one can say - 3 different types of lens qualities. They are marked with the addition "apo" or "asph". No addition means "normal lens".

Apo: the term is for apochromatic correction. That means for instance the "Apo-Telyt-R 1:2.0/180 mm" is a 180 mm telelens with the aperture 2.0 for the Leica R system with apochromatic correction.
Asph: means a lens with one or two aspherical lens surfaces for reducing scattering light.
I'm not sure, but I think it depends on the lens construction wether the company offers an asph. or an apo lens. In the R-and M-system you can get a lens with apo and asph corrections - the Apo-Summicron-M/R 1:2.0/90 mm Asph. (sorry, but absolutely crazy and unbelievable results in picture details).

Now let me say please some words to the quality of the lenses.

The quality of the different lenses is different. Each optical system - even the best one - produces some scattering light. This results in loss of picture quality.
The quality is measured in standardized MTF- diagrams ( modulation - transmission - function) what is - very simple explained - the number of lines per mm the lens can portray in a picture.
Looking to the MTF-diagrams (published on the Leica website) you see the quality of lenses. In general the apo lenses are better than normal lenses. The more expensive a lens the more better the lens is.
Very detailed information you can get on the website of Erwin Puts (I think you have to google it). There is also a small booklet (Leica Pocket Book by Dennis Laney and Erwin Puts, Hove Collectors Books, GB,) giving you a more detailed information about the Leica equipment.

Please take a look to the apo lenses. The quality is really unbelievable and the results are incredible. All these apo lenses are with the best lenses you can ever buy. Ok, they are expensive but it is worth to buy.

I hope I could give you a small introduction to the Leica nomenclature.
Enjoy your camera and have a lot of fun!

Best regards from Germany to Tampa

Dikdik

[rubenkok]

Hi Michael,
Welcome to the forum.
Here is some nice reading: Leica M-Lenses - Their soul and secrets
Hope this is some help,
Ruben

[luigi bertolotti]

Ruben... nice idea to introduce an innocent newbie in the Leica world... splat into his face the Puts Holy Bible... ... let's see the impact...

[rubenkok]

Hi Luigi
You have to start somewhere........
All the best
Ruben

[luigi bertolotti]

Originally Posted by BRUCELEE

I'm new to the Leica world. I've been shooting film/digital for 15+years.
I would like to now join the prestigious world of Leica.
I am researching equipment and I have to tell you it's like speaking another language.
I am considering purchasing an M7 body a 35mm 1.4, 50mm f2, 135mm 2.8.
My question is: What is the difference between "SUMMILUX" and "ELMART" and "ASPH"?
I see huge price differences in pricing, why?
I want the best glass that I can get.

I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

Best regards,
michael
Tampa, FL

If you feel like calling please feel free: 813-835-7691
mrschuhmann@mac.com

You say you have shot for 15 years... so I assume your lens choice has a sense for yourself (personally, I'd like to have a stronger wideangle... but matter of taste); given this, my only observation is about 135: there isn't a 2,8 in the present price list: time ago there was one (Tele Elmarit) that can be easily found as used, but for me isn't a best buy: it's a rather bulky lens with an optical accessory ("goggles") fitted, that enlarges the VF view: that's useful... but makes the lens not so easy to carry ; Leica at the moment sells a 135 f3,4 (another brand name... Apo-Telyt), compact and excellent; alternatively, you can find a used 135 f4 (Tele Elmar) which is almost as good, very compact and portable, that can be found at reasonable cost.
The 50 f2 (Summicron) is a sort of must-have for a film Leica... if you prefer to go a little further on WA, there is a 28 2,8 (Elmarit Asph) : M7 VF has the frame for this focal length, and you spare significant money vs. the 35 1,4 (for the price of it, btw, you can buy the above 28 and a 35 f 2,5 - Summarit - another brand name..)

[pvsrv]

Michael

By the way, you may want to visit Colonial Photo and Hobby in Orlando. I had some processing done while on vacation. By coincidence they were hosting a "Leica Day" event when I stopped in (very convenient indeed). They have a decent line-up off new Leica equipment and know the equipment.

"Leica Days" are days where the Leica rep comes by with all their equipment and gives customers the opportunity to handle the cameras and lenses. It's a great opportunity to "talk Leica" with other owners!

Dan

[lars_bergquist]

About lens names: Up to about the middle of the 20th century, i.e. before computers, a lens design could consume many man-years of computation, and was something to be very proud of. Designs were few and rare, and the better designs had design names, like Tessar, Sonnar and Planar (Zeiss) and Elmar and Hektor (Leitz). An Elmar for instance was always a 'cemented triplet': One positive lens element followed by a negative (bi-concave one) and the rear brought up by a positive group of two cemented elements.

From about 1950 Leitz got themselves a Zuse computer and created some software for it. New complicated lens design started to spew out, the first being the collapsible 50mm Summicron of 1953. Around 1958 new designs were so many that there was problems with inventing new names. So after that year lens names were basically redundant speed class names, not design names. The first 90mm f:2.8 lens e.g. was actually a Hektor-type design, but was named 'Elmarit', and that has since then meant a 2.8 lens, period. Here are the names:

f:4, 3.5 Elmar (or Tele-Elmar)
f:2.8 Elmarit (or Tele-Elmarit)
f:2.5 Summarit (until 1960 an f:1.5 50mm lens)
f:2 Summicron
f:1.4 Summilux
f:1.2 or 1.0 Noctilux

'Telyt' however has always designated a lens of true telephoto design, irrespective of speed, mostly long lenses for use with the Visoflex reflex attachments.

Leitz/Leica image quality targets have always been extremely high, but they have of course developed with the technology. You can slap many lenses from the late 1950's on a M7 or even a M8 and take very nice pictures, and some people prefer the slightly lower contrast and micro-definition, but they will also have to accept more flare and internal reflexes. The present generation of lenses is generally fantastic in that department.

The old man from the Age of the Summitar

[jaapv]

Originally Posted by lars_bergquist

About lens names: Up to about the middle of the 20th century, i.e. before computers, a lens design could consume many man-years of computation, and was something to be very proud of. Designs were few and rare, and the better designs had design names, like Tessar, Sonnar and Planar (Zeiss) and Elmar and Hektor (Leitz). An Elmar for instance was always a 'cemented triplet': One positive lens element followed by a negative (bi-concave one) and the rear brought up by a positive group of two cemented elements.

From about 1950 Leitz got themselves a Zuse computer and created some software for it. New complicated lens design started to spew out, the first being the collapsible 50mm Summicron of 1953. Around 1958 new designs were so many that there was problems with inventing new names. So after that year lens names were basically redundant speed class names, not design names. The first 90mm f:2.8 lens e.g. was actually a Hektor-type design, but was named 'Elmarit', and that has since then meant a 2.8 lens, period. Here are the names:

f:4, 3.5 Elmar (or Tele-Elmar)
f:2.8 Elmarit (or Tele-Elmarit)
f:2.5 Summarit (until 1960 an f:1.5 50mm lens)
f:2 Summicron
f:1.4 Summilux
f:1.2 or 1.0 Noctilux

'Telyt' however has always designated a lens of true telephoto design, irrespective of speed, mostly long lenses for use with the Visoflex reflex attachments.

Leitz/Leica image quality targets have always been extremely high, but they have of course developed with the technology. You can slap many lenses from the late 1950's on a M7 or even a M8 and take very nice pictures, and some people prefer the slightly lower contrast and micro-definition, but they will also have to accept more flare and internal reflexes. The present generation of lenses is generally fantastic in that department.

The old man from the Age of the Summitar

Very good, Lars, but the 400, 560 and 800 Telyts are not telephoto designs, but achromatic telescopes, and the 500/8.0 R is a catadioptric design.

[Thomas Edwards]

...probably the best place to get up to speed quickly would be to visit leica's website...there should be a downloadable 'lens book' that explains relevant terms, differences, advantages and disadvantages of each of the len leica currently offers...