Just the MP?

[kivis]

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Just noticed this on Leica's web site:

 

ENDURING

You never know when inspiration will strike

 

The sleek and reliable Leica MP can be operated without batteries for all exposure times, under any weather conditions. No matter what Mother Nature throws at you, your Leica is ready to go.

 

http://static.leica-camera.com/var/leica/storage/images/media/media-asset-management-mam/global-international/photography/m-system/leica-mp/features/mp-1-enduring/843388-7-eng-MA/MP-1-ENDURING_teaser-307x205.png

[wattsy]

Well, the digital M bodies won't do much without batteries (the M240 can't even display the framelines:D) and the M7 is a little restricted without power. I find the M-A works best without batteries.

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[jcraf]

Just noticed this on Leica's web site:

 

ENDURING

You never know when inspiration will strike

 

The sleek and reliable Leica MP can be operated without batteries for all exposure times, under any weather conditions. No matter what Mother Nature throws at you, your Leica is ready to go.

 

http://static.leica-camera.com/var/leica/storage/images/media/media-asset-management-mam/global-international/photography/m-system/leica-mp/features/mp-1-enduring/843388-7-eng-MA/MP-1-ENDURING_teaser-307x205.png

 

Yes, true of the MP, but not the M-P.

[250swb]

Of course this confusion is where Leica's genius naming policy really delivers, a whole world separated by a punctuation mark. Somebody actually got paid to think that through.

 

Steve

[jdlaing]

Of course this confusion is where Leica's genius naming policy really delivers, a whole world separated by a punctuation mark. Somebody actually got paid to think that through.

 

Steve

 

It's also, I believe, designated by Type 240 in the case of the M-P.

[250swb]

It's also, I believe, designated by Type 240 in the case of the M-P.

 

So you think having to reference the part number beats a simple colloquial expression in everyday communication? It's like having to list the ingredients just to order a bowl of muesli.

 

 

Steve

[jdlaing]

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So you think having to reference the part number beats a simple colloquial expression in everyday communication? It's like having to list the ingredients just to order a bowl of muesli.

 

 

Steve

 

I think shortening an expression or taking words out of sentences to try and save time can be detrimental.

 

M dash P or MP 240.

 

I don't think there is a soul on this forum that doesn't know the difference between the MP and the above.

[250swb]

I don't think there is a soul on this forum that doesn't know the difference between the MP and the above.

 

 

OK, I'm talking to you, with real words, and I'm supposed to say 'M hyphen P' for you to understand I don't mean its a film camera? Otherwise you just hear 'MP', or should there be a pregnant pause between the M and the P?

 

Clearly with writing things on the Leica Forum if I write 'M3' I assume you don't think it is a metric sized nut or bolt but a camera. But even so what is the 'man in the street' to understand from Leica's naming policy unless he to happens to have been on the indoctrination course?

 

There are three, or possibly four, Leica 'M' at the moment (irrespective of the entire historical lineup). There is the Leica M (Type 240) where the actual model is referenced by words that appear in the specification sheet in brackets. If I say I have a Leica M it is a naming failure if I have to also say it is a 'Type 240' as a reference to the part number. Don't forget, Leica made a big song and dance over the 'M' designation, not M10 to carry on from the M9 but 'M'. So in colloquial terms if the words '747' or 'Jumbo Jet' are said nobody anywhere in the world needs the word 'Boeing' inserting to understand what is being talked about, pure clarity, unlike the Leica 'M'. This is because there is also the Leica M-P, a derivative of the Leica M, but then there is the Leica M-A, this isn't a derivative of the Leica M, it is a derivative of the Leica MP. And then there is the Leica MM, not an M at all, but a derivative of the Leica M9.

 

So somebody comes up to you in the street and says what a nice camera you have and innocently asks "can you still buy film for it ?" You say your Leica M-P is a digital camera and they are very excited and go and look it up with a view to purchase on Ebay, but they see the Leica MP is a film camera. Of course, your mistake is not to mention the part number of (Type M240) or stress the hyphen because you know their eyes will glaze over. So nobody wins, Leica loose a sale, you look like a tosser and communication with other human beings runs onto the rocks.

 

So all very different from nerds on the Leica Forum writing about the M-P and knowing it is the 'Professional' version of the M (that is the Type 240), which just happens to demote the standard M (Type 240) to the 'amateur' model by definition. So now explain to the man in the street why the 'professional' model comes along two years after the amateur version was released, and one year before it is replaced by another amateur camera, also called the M (but Type 360 (or whatever)).

 

It won't be long before even the nerds don't know what to call the camera they just bought.

 

Steve

Edited November 21, 2014 by 250swb

[Jeff S]

Well, it is the company that went from M3 to M2 to M1 to M4….

 

The good news is that having confusing and changing names doesn't necessarily correlate with company demise…see Mercedes.

 

Jeff

Edited November 22, 2014 by Jeff S

[gyoung]

There was another, different MP in there too, between M3 and M2 I think, or thereabouts.

Who do they employ in the marketing dept now, monkeys?

 

Gerry

[Gibbo]

If the answer is yes, is that a good or a bad thing?

[gyoung]

Monkeys can write Shakespeare...

[Herr Barnack]

OK, I'm talking to you, with real words, and I'm supposed to say 'M hyphen P' for you to understand I don't mean its a film camera? Otherwise you just hear 'MP', or should there be a pregnant pause between the M and the P?

 

Clearly with writing things on the Leica Forum if I write 'M3' I assume you don't think it is a metric sized nut or bolt but a camera. But even so what is the 'man in the street' to understand from Leica's naming policy unless he to happens to have been on the indoctrination course?

 

There are three, or possibly four, Leica 'M' at the moment (irrespective of the entire historical lineup). There is the Leica M (Type 240) where the actual model is referenced by words that appear in the specification sheet in brackets. If I say I have a Leica M it is a naming failure if I have to also say it is a 'Type 240' as a reference to the part number. Don't forget, Leica made a big song and dance over the 'M' designation, not M10 to carry on from the M9 but 'M'. So in colloquial terms if the words '747' or 'Jumbo Jet' are said nobody anywhere in the world needs the word 'Boeing' inserting to understand what is being talked about, pure clarity, unlike the Leica 'M'. This is because there is also the Leica M-P, a derivative of the Leica M, but then there is the Leica M-A, this isn't a derivative of the Leica M, it is a derivative of the Leica MP. And then there is the Leica MM, not an M at all, but a derivative of the Leica M9.

 

So somebody comes up to you in the street and says what a nice camera you have and innocently asks "can you still buy film for it ?" You say your Leica M-P is a digital camera and they are very excited and go and look it up with a view to purchase on Ebay, but they see the Leica MP is a film camera. Of course, your mistake is not to mention the part number of (Type M240) or stress the hyphen because you know their eyes will glaze over. So nobody wins, Leica loose a sale, you look like a tosser and communication with other human beings runs onto the rocks.

 

So all very different from nerds on the Leica Forum writing about the M-P and knowing it is the 'Professional' version of the M (that is the Type 240), which just happens to demote the standard M (Type 240) to the 'amateur' model by definition. So now explain to the man in the street why the 'professional' model comes along two years after the amateur version was released, and one year before it is replaced by another amateur camera, also called the M (but Type 360 (or whatever)).

 

It won't be long before even the nerds don't know what to call the camera they just bought.

 

Steve

Sounds like they should rename the M-P and call it the PMS.

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Jeff,

 

As per your Post #9 above:

 

The Leica Bayonet Mount Lens Series of Cameras probably began with the M3 because the Roman Numeral "III" had been used previously by Leitz to designate Leica model cameras that had: 1. Basic Body & Fast Shutter Speeds. 2. Range Finder & View Finder. 3. Slow shutter speeds.

 

The Model "II" of previous series lacked Slow Shutter Speeds.

 

The Model "I" of previous series lacked Slow Shuttter Speeds & Rangefinder & Viewfinder.

 

The M3 had all of the above.

 

The M2 was a scaling back of the M3. A less expensive Range/Viewfinder was used. Some other items were also left out or changed. Altho some, like the self-timer, were later added.

 

The M1 was basically a scaled back M2 with the rangefinder left out.

 

The M4 was considered an upgrade of the M3 in terms of features added. Altho it retained a version of the less costly M2 Range/Viewfinder. Some of the added features were self-resetting frame counter, quick film loading & an angled rewind crank that could be operated more rapidly.

 

The M5 added a behind the lens meter, a hot shoe & more sophisticated flash wiring. As well as a number of other useful features.

 

And so on. As the M" Series continued.

 

Including backward with the M4-2.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

Edited November 24, 2014 by Michael Geschlecht

[Jeff S]

Yes, Michael, I own the Puts' Chronicle, etc…but thanks for the marketing dept spin.

 

Jeff

[philipus]

About this quote from the Leica site: "The sleek and reliable Leica MP can be operated without batteries for all exposure times."

 

That, of course, goes for all film M except the M7.

 

A slight tangent but reading the marketing lingo relating to the M-A, which is similar to the above quote, it's quite evident that Leica tries to justify the existence of the M-A by using descriptions that apply to virtually every film M ever made. The trouble with this is that it risks giving the impression that Leica believes that most potential buyers have no knowledge of the long line of past models many of which work well today. That may very well be the case and the reason why the marketing is as it is, but, as much as I hope Leica will sell many M-As, it's pretty clear that by considering the wealth of past M models potential buyers with little to no knowledge of the M system as a whole would be able to find a camera that fits their needs far better than this, one model does. And they would save a not inconsiderable amount of money doing so.

 

Btw, Steve, post #8 ought to be made an open letter to Herr Dr Kaufmann.

 

I don't think there is a soul on this forum that doesn't know the difference between the MP and the above.

 

At photokina the Leica rep who showed me the M-A almost experienced a brain meltdown trying to keep the various MP, with or without hyphen, models apart to explain the genealogy of the M-A:

 

"This camera is based on the MP, that is the previous MP not the current one, meaning the M dash P."

 

"Ah", I said, "the previous MP. So it's not based on the first MP then?"

 

At this point the rep just stared at me blankly.

Edited November 29, 2014 by philipus

[MarkP]

OK, I'm talking to you, with real words, and I'm supposed to say 'M hyphen P' for you to understand I don't mean its a film camera? Otherwise you just hear 'MP', or should there be a pregnant pause between the M and the P?

 

Clearly with writing things on the Leica Forum if I write 'M3' I assume you don't think it is a metric sized nut or bolt but a camera. But even so what is the 'man in the street' to understand from Leica's naming policy unless he to happens to have been on the indoctrination course?

 

There are three, or possibly four, Leica 'M' at the moment (irrespective of the entire historical lineup). There is the Leica M (Type 240) where the actual model is referenced by words that appear in the specification sheet in brackets. If I say I have a Leica M it is a naming failure if I have to also say it is a 'Type 240' as a reference to the part number. Don't forget, Leica made a big song and dance over the 'M' designation, not M10 to carry on from the M9 but 'M'. So in colloquial terms if the words '747' or 'Jumbo Jet' are said nobody anywhere in the world needs the word 'Boeing' inserting to understand what is being talked about, pure clarity, unlike the Leica 'M'. This is because there is also the Leica M-P, a derivative of the Leica M, but then there is the Leica M-A, this isn't a derivative of the Leica M, it is a derivative of the Leica MP. And then there is the Leica MM, not an M at all, but a derivative of the Leica M9.

 

So somebody comes up to you in the street and says what a nice camera you have and innocently asks "can you still buy film for it ?" You say your Leica M-P is a digital camera and they are very excited and go and look it up with a view to purchase on Ebay, but they see the Leica MP is a film camera. Of course, your mistake is not to mention the part number of (Type M240) or stress the hyphen because you know their eyes will glaze over. So nobody wins, Leica loose a sale, you look like a tosser and communication with other human beings runs onto the rocks.

 

So all very different from nerds on the Leica Forum writing about the M-P and knowing it is the 'Professional' version of the M (that is the Type 240), which just happens to demote the standard M (Type 240) to the 'amateur' model by definition. So now explain to the man in the street why the 'professional' model comes along two years after the amateur version was released, and one year before it is replaced by another amateur camera, also called the M (but Type 360 (or whatever)).

 

It won't be long before even the nerds don't know what to call the camera they just bought.

 

Steve

 

Thanks Steve,

 

well said. Why read Kafka when I can immerse myself in the absurdist labarynthine nomenclature of current Leica M-camera courtesy of you?

Edited November 30, 2014 by MarkP