Puts is "Looking for the DNA in the Leica M genealogy"

[cbretteville]

Erwin's latest can be found here.

http://www.imx.nl/photosite/comments/c027.html

- C

[marknorton]

Usual windbag Erwin stuff.

Reminds me of that old adage: "Those who can, do it; those who can't, talk (or in his case, write) about it".

[guy_mancuso]

Frankly I have stopped reading his stuff. The lenses that he has tested seem pretty accurate but digital i do not agree with him on many counts. Not after testing the DMR as much as I have and every Canon DSLR made.

[rosuna]

Puts has changed his mind at least two times. FIrst, he was convinced of the inferiority of the digital medium. Secondly, he was convinced of the superiority of the digital medium, praised Olympus (4/3 digital is like 35mm film) and criticized Leica. Thirdly, and this is the actual state, he praises Canon and the possibilities of the digital medium (in camera software corrections), acknowledges the importance of the size of the sensor (Canon again, Olympus is now condemned), but he continues criticizing Leica (too late, too few). So, film/Oly/Canon is the sequence.

[raizans]

"Technologically the camera [Epson R-D1] is not state of the art: the implementation of sensor technology and the post-processing algorithms are inadequate to faithfully record the essence of image quality of the Leica lenses (and for that matter Zeiss, Konica and Voigtlander lenses too)."

obviously, he hasn't read sean reid's reviews.

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/re...nsreview.shtml

when he tries to depreciate the two Unique Selling Points, i wonder who he's trying to convince. leica users shoot 35mm and love the viewfinder. who's among us cares if the m8 doesn't have 25mp and a live view lcd? leica will still make money off of the latter through their partnership with panasonic, and the former is the domain of canon and the medium format slr and digital back makers. what puts seems to want to do is make an argument that leica needs to make new customers specifically with the m8, but in completely different markets.

but that's ridiculous. the m8 is for the current leica m user base of photojournalists, wedding photographers, artists, and advanced amateurs. the only true leica product that can attract a new clientele of young customers is an affordable Decisive Moment Digital.

http://luminous-landscape.com/columns/DMD.shtml

considering recent developments, i would add a live view lcd. however, i'd prefer interchangeable lenses instead of a fixed lens and lens converters, which tend to be large and unwieldy. anyone who wants big zoom lenses can get the l1 or leica rebadge. anyhow....

does such a camera make sense within 4/3? could it survive independantly of the 4/3 system? is it possible to use the m-mount for autofocus lenses? can manual rangefinder focus be combined with autofocus? i think the first is a no, and the others are yeses. a true leica product won't be based on 4/3 technology, but their own from making the m8. i suppose they may borrow some things from 4/3, but certainly not the mount. more people in recent times are familiar with rangefinder cameras thanks to the internet and rangefinder renaissance. rangefinders have had a lot of press recently, too. i doubt making autofocus lenses in the m-mount will be a problem. using manual focus lenses is as easy as adding the zebra code and including a focus confirmation light in the viewfinder.

if anyone is to make a camera like this, it's leica. at least i bet they want to more than anyone else.

[Dan States]

The Digital M will be the first professional quality digital camera that can fit in the palm of your hand or a coat pocket. It will be of first class construction quality, and offer the finest RF viewfinder system ever made....just like always. It will be the first digital camera that can actually make full use of Leica lenses, and it will be A LEICA.

Folks, pixel counting is to no effect in an age when a 10mp DSLR can crank out magnificent 13x19" prints at will.

I'll repeat what I said before...Leica will not be able to make enough Digital M cameras to support demand. They will be swamped with back orders and in one year our major beef will be in their lack of capacity. I personally love my D200, and yet can not wait to dump it as soon as the M digital hits the streets...

[norm_snyder]

We should, of course consider that, as good as the results from 10 [even some 6] MP digital SLR's, may be, there remains the question of the quality of the results with black & white imaging, compared to carefully scanned [with high quality, e.g. Imacon Flextight] film. I am currently engaged in a project involving shots of live jazz performances in clubs--very poor light, no strobe--and have been shooting with both digital [Fuji S3 w/ prime lenses, files uprezed] and my M6's with pushed HP5+, developed in T-max, as well as Acufine. Individuals looking at 13x19 prints all have agreed that there is a quality to the film shots they prefer . While it is unclear whether they have simply become accustomed to seeing grainy B&W shots of jazz musicians, or whether they simply look better remains unclear. While I do hope that I can dispense with film soon, and perhaps the digital incarnation of the M-camera will do that for me, for now, I'll continue to use the two media side by side, each with their own strengths, and wait on tenterhooks for the big show in the fall. For now, for black and white--vintage film, vintage lenses, vintage look [and vintage photographer].

Norm

[franklinh]

I was at Glazer's Camera in Seattle Saturday, and I was watching a Woman handle a Canon DSLR - TOO BIG! A M-dimensioned digital camera will be a dream. I am saving up!
Franklin

[wattsy]

[quote=marknorton]Usual windbag Erwin stuff.

I'm not sure why Puts generates so much hostility. Taken in small doses I think his arguments are usually quite interesting. His analysis in the latest 'article' seems pretty fair to me although I would argue that the 'DNA' of the M line is much more in the rangefinder than it is in the shutter. I've owned (or used) a number of rangefinders - e.g. Xpan, Mamiya 7, RD-1 - and none of them have matched up to the reliability and accuracy of the M rangefinder. There is something very satisfying about the gentle sound of the M cloth shutter but I'd always trade it ahead of the rangefinder.

[skimmel]

I was curious about his statement: "Persons who base their comparative assessments of lenses on the evaluation of images taken with the RD-1 might be tempted to draw unqualified conclusions." Perhaps I'm oversensitive, but being a fan for Sean Reid I can't help but wonder if Putts is referring to Sean's lens reviews in this statement?

[chrisweeks]

i've read a few of put's articles ...

but what kills me is ... i forget that i've read him before and look for examples of his photography ...

then ... i kinda take his information with a grain of salt.

[reddawn]

Originally Posted by skimmel

I was curious about his statement: "Persons who base their comparative assessments of lenses on the evaluation of images taken with the RD-1 might be tempted to draw unqualified conclusions." Perhaps I'm oversensitive, but being a fan for Sean Reid I can't help but wonder if Putts is referring to Sean's lens reviews in this statement?

that's what I thought too - that Putts is taking a shot at Sean.... I have not used the RD-1, but I've plenty of experience with first generation DSLRs from the Canon D30 onwards, and can confidently say that the 6 megapixel resolutions of cameras like the D60, 10D, Nikon D100, D50 / D70s etc are more than capable of excellent results and are able to show subtle differences in lens' characteristic handling of and behaviour to light.

To say blatantly that

Technologically the camera [Epson R-D1] is not state of the art: the implementation of sensor technology and the post-processing algorithms are inadequate to faithfully record the essence of image quality of the Leica lenses (and for that matter Zeiss, Konica and Voigtlander lenses too).

reveals a lack of experience on the part of the author, who until recently, has been a film proponent and who have claimed digital will take many years to surpass the quality of film. ha!

ps: I'm also a subscriber of Reid Reviews.

[FastFashnReloaded]

Actually his post (Erwin's) is well written and not as deep as many of his have been. It makes sense.

[gib_robinson]

There is a lot to disagree about in Erwin's more polemical writing, but he has been an extremely valuable resource over the years, I've always found his lens analyses valuable, even if they left me wanting to have another point of view.