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Old 26/07/11, 01:08   #41 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tri Elmar 28-35-50MM f/4

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Wilson, your response sounds very likely, there is no way I can believe that Leica can't produce it if they wanted to. BTW, where and why did they reposition this thread?

Last edited by stanjan0; 26/07/11 at 01:48. Reason: additional info
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Old 26/07/11, 01:31   #42 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tri Elmar 28-35-50MM f/4

I agree its a great lens and like you I was able to get one of the last ones made ,coded and brand new.I personally prefer it on an M8 (35/50/70) with the WATE (21/24/28)
The new price for an V3 will probably be eye watering,unless they modify the design ,but price does not stop people buying Leica glass
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Old 26/07/11, 01:39   #43 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tri Elmar 28-35-50MM f/4

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Well, the Tri finally arrived and I opened the package and the lens looked brand new(WOW) so I strapped on my M9 opened the door sat in my car and aimed at my house at f/8. Now I don't think I posted an image here so now I'll try, patience people. The first image is 28MM f/8, second image 50MM f/8, last image 35MM f/8, all right out of the camera only down sizing. I can't get over the sky there was no filter on board. So what do you think?
You may not be aware but the MATE requires slim line filters when used on either an M9 or film M.Leica made a slimline UV filter for this lens.
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Old 26/07/11, 11:15   #44 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tri Elmar 28-35-50MM f/4

The MATE lens barrels were made by Uwe Weller FeinwerksTechnik who I think make many of the turned components used in Leica lenses. The company is at least part owned by Dr Kaufmann's investment company and now occupies part of the Leitz Park site in Wetzlar.

Until recently, there was a picture on the Weller web-site of the brass MATE barrel, immediately identifiable by the characteristic v-shaped slots cut in it. In the lens, small nylon rollers locate into these slots to cause the lens groups to reposition as the focal length ring is turned.

Sadly, just as the MATE is now history, so too the picture has gone.
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Old 26/07/11, 18:23   #45 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tri Elmar 28-35-50MM f/4

By the way, here's a cross section of the MATE. Love mine for bright daylight photography.

Cross Section Views of Leica Lenses

It's a shame they destroyed the lens for this
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Old 28/07/11, 00:45   #46 (permalink)
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Default AW: Re: Tri Elmar 28-35-50MM f/4

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Originally Posted by tdtaylor View Post
By the way, here's a cross section of the MATE. Love mine for bright daylight photography.

Cross Section Views of Leica Lenses

It's a shame they destroyed the lens for this
I did not react when someone overbid me for such a thing on ebay. Tool for pics, or would you own half a car, just for looking at its insides? GAS is like tobacco, but that's not even gear.

PS Bright daylight? Do you use Velvia?

Last edited by tri; 28/07/11 at 00:49. Reason: ps
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Old 28/07/11, 05:35   #47 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tri Elmar 28-35-50MM f/4

Not quite following, but I converted to all digital in the early 2000's. Use it with an M9. USe the lens more for work documenting buildings; whereas, for my personal work (outside of midday walks while traveling), I tend to use primes. But considering I use my camera for business more than pleasure, the MATE is probably my most heavily used lens.
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Old 28/07/11, 09:52   #48 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tri Elmar 28-35-50MM f/4

According to another forum member (Jaap?), these cross section lenses were assembled by apprentices from sub-standard parts prior to being sectioned, so no loss to us photographers.

I remember some years ago during a visit by their insurance underwriters to Rolls Royce Aero in Derby, seeing a group of apprentices working to make a sectioned version of a helicopter turbine engine. Sadly we had to leave all cameras at the front entrance, so no pics of this fascinating process.

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Old 28/07/11, 11:16   #49 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tri Elmar 28-35-50MM f/4

I like the 50/1.4 ASPH cross section. Now I understand why this lens is so darn heavy, basically solid glass.
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Old 28/07/11, 17:24   #50 (permalink)
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According to another forum member (Jaap?), these cross section lenses were assembled by apprentices from sub-standard parts prior to being sectioned, so no loss to us photographers.
Quite glad to hear this. I just find it fascinating how much is "going on" inside this lens.

And yes, I agree, now I see why the 50 is so heavy.
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Old 01/08/11, 20:30   #51 (permalink)
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Has anyone asked Leica recently why they don't revise and re-issue the MATE? The last time I asked about 3 years ago during a visit to Solms and just before I found mine, I got the "can't get the glass for one of the elements" tale. At a Contax group meeting in Germany about 18 months ago, we had a guy there who worked for Schott Glass. He said that they can make an equivalent for any glass every made, other than the radioactive ones and press glass blanks, again pretty much in any asymmetric format required, so Leica's story does not really stack up. Perhaps it is fear of warranty claims, which would be a reasonable commercial decision. On the other hand if they made it a zoom, it would be mechanically simpler and I am sure there is a more robust way to link the frame change tab than the V2, which in turn was an improvement on the V1.

I was very lucky to find one of the last made and sold as a 30% M8 discount lens, factory coded from new. It had had mount problems right from the start and the original owner got bored with it. It took two more visits to Solms with me but now it is almost perfect. The frame change on my M9 (but strangely not on my M4 or M8) is slightly sticky going from 28mm to 50mm and the 50mm frame is a bit ghostly until I flick the frame change lever.

Wilson
Hi Wilson,

hope you are well.

It is my understanding that the reason the MATE is no longer made is that the mechanical complexity and precision needed for it to achieve its required performance was very much more expensive to maintain than expected.
There is support for this analysis in the fact that a MATE cutaway is a part numbered Leica product, which implies to me that a significant number of assembled units failed final inspection and were cut up and sold to try to recoup some of the loss.
Maybe at the higher price now being given for used ones there may be a solution but a combination of a small number of elements, which usually requires higher positional precision , and the required 28-50-35 FL sequence may mean that the necessary mechanical precision will always be uneconomical to achieve.

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Old 01/08/11, 21:27   #52 (permalink)
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Default Re: AW: Tri Elmar 28-35-50MM f/4

Frank,

I am well thank you.

I am sure I don't need to tell you in your industry, how far precision part manufacture has advanced just in the last few years. Even getting parts for our historic racers and rally cars has become dramatically easier recently. Just to give one example, the gearbox casing on our Maserati 250S was more weld than original. We have now been able to have two new gearbox casings made at very reasonable cost and in far stronger alloy than the original. As a result, the gearbox on the 250S, which was a very weak point, as it was originally designed for the 1.5 litre 150S, is no longer a concern. My son who works as a development engineer for JCB, keeps telling me about techniques like precision 3D prototyping, with computer controlled lasers. I am sure therefore, given the will, Leica could easily produce a new (and better) MATE.

Wilson

Last edited by wlaidlaw; 01/08/11 at 21:39.
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Old 01/08/11, 21:42   #53 (permalink)
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Frank,

I am well thank you.

I am sure I don't need to tell you in your industry, how far precision part manufacture has advanced just in the last few years. Even getting parts for our historic racers and rally cars has become dramatically easier recently. Just to give one example, the gearbox casing on our Maserati 250S was more weld than original. We have now been able to have two new gearbox casings made at very reasonable cost and in far stronger alloy than the original. As a result, the gearbox on the 250S, which was a very weak point, as it was originally designed for the 1.5 litre 150S, is no longer a concern. My son who works as a development engineer for JCB, keeps telling me about techniques like precision 3D prototyping, with computer controlled lasers. I am sure therefore , given the will, Leica could easily produce a new (and better) MATE.

Wilson
Wilson,

I don't doubt that they could produce a new WATE, just suspect that if they could make one profitably they would have done so by now. Discussion boards have been full of potential customers wishing for a replacement for years and I can't imagine they would just choose not to make one for no reason.

I am familiar with rapid prototyping and have used it for many years both for pattern work, wind-tunnel model parts and latterly directly for low stress car parts. It is very useful and quick, but whilst it is high precision compared to castings it is about 10 to 100 times less accurate than would be required for a precision lens mount...

Frank
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Old 01/08/11, 22:03   #54 (permalink)
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Default Re: AW: Tri Elmar 28-35-50MM f/4

Wilson,

Will you be at Goodwood next month? I presume your Brother will be racing as usual.

Best wishes,
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Old 02/08/11, 00:48   #55 (permalink)
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Wilson,

Will you be at Goodwood next month? I presume your Brother will be racing as usual.

Best wishes,
Charlie,

I won't be there, as I am back in the UK from the end of August to about the 9th of September for the birth of my first grandchild and then back in France.

I also don't know about my brother. Firstly he has just had some metal pins removed from his leg after an accident last year, so it depends on fitness. I have not spoken to him in the last couple of weeks since he had it done. Secondly, I know he felt that the Goodwood Revival was getting a bit greedy on the "suggested" entry fees (don't pay them and you don't get invited back). I think this year they are in the region of £6-7,000 per car. If you compare that for example with the Old Timer GP at the Nurburgring, they are huge.

I was looking at doing the Corsican Classic Rally this year in my '77 911 3.0 RS and a 6 day event, including hotels and ferries to and from Corsica was less than half the price of a single car entry to Goodwood. Unfortunately, neither of my regular co-drivers can do it.

Wilson
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Old 02/08/11, 00:59   #56 (permalink)
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Default Re: AW: Tri Elmar 28-35-50MM f/4

Wilson,

I’ve sent you a PM

Best wishes,
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