NZDavid Posted November 23, 2011 Share #21 Posted November 23, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Excellent, thanks Andreas, all going fine now! Yes, I'm a subscriber. Yes, it is only a forum. But software glitches can truly wreak havoc. Our newspaper came out this year despite earthquakes and the building being destroyed, but it didn't come out later on because of software problems. I don't think it's user error; IT in general -- and especially Microsoft systems -- needs to be more reliable. Fingers crossed all OK for now... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 Hi NZDavid, Take a look here what is going on?????. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
250swb Posted November 23, 2011 Share #22 Posted November 23, 2011 SORRY - my fault! The reason were three missing characters as djcphoto described: This made the whole forum page a link - and send my eBay click statistics through the ceiling (thanks for that...) Now everything should be OK again... Andreas The guy who's Ebay auction for his Leica lens came up each time anything was pressed owes you a beer, .............did it sell? Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted November 24, 2011 Share #23 Posted November 24, 2011 Excellent, thanks Andreas, all going fine now! Yes, I'm a subscriber. Yes, it is only a forum. But software glitches can truly wreak havoc. Our newspaper came out this year despite earthquakes and the building being destroyed, but it didn't come out later on because of software problems. I don't think it's user error; IT in general -- and especially Microsoft systems -- needs to be more reliable. Fingers crossed all OK for now... It is not about Microsoft in this case. David, this forum is particularly sophisticated. Give a little slack to Andreas. He has an ambitious and complex site to maintain. Don't criticize what you cannot understand. . Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted November 24, 2011 Share #24 Posted November 24, 2011 I understand when it doesn't work. I have no idea why. Not Andrea's fault. There is far too much reliance placed on "sophisticated" software and too little on reliability. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted November 24, 2011 Share #25 Posted November 24, 2011 I understand when it doesn't work. I have no idea why. Not Andrea's fault. There is far too much reliance placed on "sophisticated" software and too little on reliability. That's rather simplistic. I could say the same about digital cameras, although I find the M9 menus and options to be of elegant design. If you are concerned now, for the heck of it, turn on your browsers debugger console and look at almost any site. You will see how the browser works about dozens of bugs, browser errors and ambivalent code. It is rather amazing. "It is not how well the bear dances, but that the bear dances at all." -- Pico - one digit short of a floating-point error Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted November 25, 2011 Share #26 Posted November 25, 2011 I am probably too simple to figure that out; I just want results! I like simple. But having tackled a couple of websites, I know full well the complexity of the hidden interface can be mindboggling. M9 is wonderfully simple for a digital product, but could be yet simpler (eg, why not set or OK button on the right in the center of the main four-way controller?). But that's the subject for another post. Great the forum is going well. How could folks cope otherwise? Best, David "There are 10 sorts of people -- those who understand binary and those who don't." Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted November 27, 2011 Share #27 Posted November 27, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) I am probably too simple to figure that out; I just want results! I like simple. Simple is my guideword through life. I've seen elegant a better expression. So be it. It works for me, and probably you, but since you are ignorant of the complexity you might, just might never realize how very much work and thinking and time it takes to slim down all the possibilities to create an elegant solution. Ask me and I can show you one. In the meantime, please appreciate those who must deal with the byzantine architecture of web applications and be happy. . Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted November 27, 2011 Share #28 Posted November 27, 2011 It seems to me possible that the criticism here is of the software rather than the user, thus admonishing the person posting is innapropriate ? Gerry, who has suffered at the hands of poor web site generation 'tools' Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted November 27, 2011 Share #29 Posted November 27, 2011 It seems to me possible that the criticism here is of the software rather than the user, thus admonishing the person posting is innapropriate ? Gerry, who has suffered at the hands of poor web site generation 'tools' Yes, my post looks that way. Re-reading it makes it clear that it was poorly expressed. It should be directed to to the general populace and lightened up some. Aside - I'm wondering how it would go if one of the better camera makers had an open-source software platform so that the smart mob could have a go at creating new software. Leica? . Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted November 27, 2011 Share #30 Posted November 27, 2011 Aside - I'm wondering how it would go if one of the better camera makers had an open-source software platform so that the smart mob could have a go at creating new software. Leica? . You want Leica to open up their software (I assume you mean Firmware) as Open Source? And, presumably, still honour their warranty? No manufacturer will ever do that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted November 27, 2011 Share #31 Posted November 27, 2011 You want Leica to open up their software (I assume you mean Firmware) as Open Source? And, presumably, still honour their warranty? No manufacturer will ever do that. Computers, music players, internet routers and switches, file servers and cell phones - to name but a few product types - are sold with open source software. The software ranges from a few plug-ins all the way to the complete system. Even the operating system in Mac OS X is partly open source. None of them are sold with restricted warranties. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted November 27, 2011 Share #32 Posted November 27, 2011 Not a chance. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted November 27, 2011 Share #33 Posted November 27, 2011 If you mean by "not a chance" that Leica are not likely to publish the software in the M8 and M9 as open source, I quite agree. It will, however, not be because of the warranty. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted November 27, 2011 Share #34 Posted November 27, 2011 OK. Say that some kid in a bedroom fiddles with open source firmware for your M9, which makes the shutter trip in a non-standard way, or means that the sensor runs hotter than specified, or whatever. You run that Open-Source firmware and your camera breaks, costing you, let's say, $2,000 to put right. Are you going to go after said kid in the bedroom? Or Leica? Or no-one, putting it down to experience? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted November 27, 2011 Share #35 Posted November 27, 2011 OK. Say that some kid in a bedroom fiddles with open source firmware for your M9, which makes the shutter trip in a non-standard way, or means that the sensor runs hotter than specified, or whatever. All other consumer products with software could be hit by similar problems. You could brick your PC, your router, your cell phone by using poorly or maliciously designed software. Vendors of such goods have stopped making an issue of that question a long time ago. They profit from using open source. The number of cases where a product is bricked by using or misusing open source software must be vanishingly small. The reason why I think that Leica will not be the first camera vendor who open sources his camera software is mainly that this would require that the software was organised in a way which makes independent development and maintenance of individual software parts possible. I don't think that they will dedicate sources to this unless they absolutely had to. Besides, if you absolutely wanted to, you could alter the software in your M8 or M9, in theory, by using the mechanism employed by Leica for updating the firmware. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted November 27, 2011 Share #36 Posted November 27, 2011 There are regular reports of Panasonic m4/3 cameras being hacked to produce 'better' results, if anyone takes the trouble it can't be an insurmountable problem even if not open source Gerry Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted November 27, 2011 Share #37 Posted November 27, 2011 You want Leica to open up their software (I assume you mean Firmware) as Open Source? And, presumably, still honour their warranty? No manufacturer will ever do that. Computers running Linux do not void their warranty, nor do any computers I know which can run open source, including Apple and Windows systems. Perhaps there is a difference because the M9, etc. would have proprietary chip designs revealed. Perhaps there is a fragility Leica does not want to reveal (and certainly a device without a sophisticated OS is inherently fragile and highly dependent upon the firm/soft ware.) As an advocate for open source, I don't care and I don't believe Leica should care: after all, it is not as if they have some advanced features that other digital cameras do not. I do not understand yet why Leica can 'fix' a frozen-up camera in a moment and we cannot, or are not allowed to. I wish I were clever enough to decompile the code and chips to machine code. Those days are long past for me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted November 28, 2011 Share #38 Posted November 28, 2011 There was a member that "tweaked" the M8 firmware, tinkering with the decompression table & also made the code available to others. This interesting thread magically disappeared never to be seen again. At the time it was claimed that its reinstatement would be discussed with Leica c.s. before restoring, they said NO presumably. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted November 28, 2011 Share #39 Posted November 28, 2011 There was a member that "tweaked" the M8 firmware, tinkering with the decompression table & also made the code available to others. This interesting thread magically disappeared never to be seen again. At the time it was claimed that its reinstatement would be discussed with Leica c.s. before restoring, they said NO presumably. Well, that that's the end of the subject. I respect Leica's wishes, and need not understand the rationale. That old software developer's itch to know is hard to shake, but fortunately age has made it easier to forget - in fact, natural. . Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
taskoni Posted November 29, 2011 Share #40 Posted November 29, 2011 The guy who's Ebay auction for his Leica lens came up each time anything was pressed owes you a beer, .............did it sell? Steve Yes, it did sell. I bought it just to get the forum going Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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