Rangefinderproblems on new M9s

[jaapv]

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Not plucked up the courage to try it yet - perhaps need more beer?

 

Will sleep on it and decide if it's a better idea to send everything to Leica for adjustment by them - but then again, it's just a screw - I can't see what harm I could do?

 

(I was thinking about Jaap's big Leica test rig and was thinking perhaps that's there for speed - after all, I've got as much time for trial and error as I need - Leica must churn out 50 cameras a day so they need to have a solution like that)

You should the rig they have in Solms. Most impressive - makes our Internet-download test thingies look like Playmobil...

[wlaidlaw]

You should the rig they have in Solms. Most impressive - makes our Internet-download test thingies look like Playmobil...

 

What - do you mean the sheet with the big X marked on it has gone into the museum?

 

Wilson

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[jaapv]

Indeed it has - as has the technician peering through the viewfinder at the pin-up.

[Julian Thompson]

OK - I have gone for it and done the adjustments myself and learned how the rangefinder is set up.

 

My camera is now 99% at all distances. I feel that I will be able to achieve 100% with a little more fiddling but in the mean time I understand it enough to post up what I have done. It is actually not difficult but does take some time to get right and to acquire a 'feel' for the magnitude of the changes needed. Carsten put me on the right road to this last night so thanks!

 

I will detail what I did : (I have also attached my sketch sheet that I have done to help me visualise the adjustments which I hope makes sense - they are my notes only.)

 

You will need a 2.5mm allen key and a small screwdriver which you should grind a very slight angle on so that as you fit the screwdriver into the head on the focus throw pivot (A) on the diagram it allows a nice flat drive.

 

A) is the focus throw adjustment. If you look at the pic you can see that the screw retains an eccentric cam. If you loosen the screw you can rotate the cam (as denoted by the pink and blue arrows) freely. As you do so, the length of the arm itself changes.

 

By moving the cam counter-clockwise (as in pink arrow) you INCREASE the total available focus throw.

 

By moving the cam clockwise (as in blue arrow) you DECREASE the total available focus throw.

 

is the infinity adjustment as we know.

 

If you rotate the 2.5mm hex key counter clockwise (as in green arrow) you move the point at which the rangefinder 'sees' infinity further away - and this 'references everything forward of that.

 

If you rotate the 2.5mm hex key clockwise (as in yellow arrow) you move the point at which the rangefinder 'sees' infinity closer to you - and this 'references everything forward of that.

 

Right - so they are the two adjustments you have available to you. From my playing about the best way to set it up is this.

 

1) Infinity is very important. Step 1 is to look at something with lots of contrast a long way off (a star does seem to work very well but today I've been using a clock tower in the far distance and that's fine too) and then adjust the roller ( so that this perfectly coincides. Don't accept the nonesense I was spouting before about it not mattering. It really matters that you can 100% converge the object at infinity.

 

2) Now, take a photo at a big aperture of something close to you - like 0.8 meters or similar. I found text to be excellent. Note whether you now have front focus or back focus. If you have front focus (like I did - big time!) then your focus throw is too short; ie your arm is too long, so when the lens rotates you're not pushing the rangefinder enough. So you need to shorten the arm by loosening (A) and twisting the cam slightly anti-clockwise. (If you have backfocus then it's obviously the inverse and you need to go clockwise to lengthen the arm and reduce your focus throw).

 

3) Now, recheck infinity. As Jaap said, rightly, before, it will now be wrong, because you have now moved the arm and so the roller wheel has also moved. But this is not a problem - just recorrect infinity as in 1) above to compensate for the altered focus throw.

 

4) Repeat step 2. You will see that the focus point has altered. Whether it has moved too little or too much will calibrate your hand/eye as to how much you need to make the adjustments but in general I made positive, but not excessive tweaks each time.

 

5) When you are happy with the infinity and close settings you want to shoot some images off that are at various distances just to make sure that everything is right. On my setup which consists of all current model lenses (not sure if this is relevent) I did not have to compensate with any kind of compromise here. When my infinity setting is right and the focus throw is perfect the transgression from near to far is linear and my lenses are sharp right the way through the range. I suppose that if this were not the case or if your lenses varied then you'd need to get them recalibrated, or maybe accept a compromise and shoot accordingly. Don't know because it didn't happen to me but worth mentioning.

 

And that's it really. You don't need any special tools or rigs and it's not rocket science - but it does take several hours to get right and that's obviously why Leica NEED to have a special rig etc.. otherwise doing it the manual way each M9 would be even more expensive!

 

I'm very pleased I now have a focussing M9 to play with but more importantly I feel that I have a better understanding. Hope this is helpful to someone.

 

PS It will be interesting to lend my M9 to someone else to have a shoot with to see if I have 'built in' corrections automatically for my eyesight. My guess is that I will have done but I'll report on that later....

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[ArtZ]

Julian,

 

Your explanations and HOWTO are very clear. I understand now why when I set infinity carrectly with the wheel ( in Costa Rica, the medium focus had change. I had no clue about moving the cam loosening (A).

 

A BIG thank you for this post, because sooner or later, my cameras won't be spot on and send them to Solms won't be necessary.

 

I have a question: Do you think, once your rangefinder is properly adjusted, it's possible to secure (A) and ( from shocks and vibrations using a blocking resine such as "Cyanolit Bloc +"?

[Julian Thompson]

I don't know Art. I don't know why they go out of trim - as in if it's the adjustment slipping or if it's something else bending/wearing etc. On balance I would say that would not be a good plan - it's tough to see a M camera going through it's entire life with no further RF adjustment?

[ArtZ]

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I don't know Art. I don't know why they go out of trim - as in if it's the adjustment slipping or if it's something else bending/wearing etc. On balance I would say that would not be a good plan - it's tough to see a M camera going through it's entire life with no further RF adjustment?

 

Julian,

 

Cyanolit Bloc + is NOT an epoxy glue. It's just a blocking resine (you know, the "bue thing" we see sometimes in screews in electronics.

[marcusperkins]

Sorry if this was mentioned earlier - I didn't read all the posts.

 

I wonder if there is some way to redesign the rangefinder with a few easily accessible fine tuning screws to safely and easily make micro adjustments, and in the field if necessary - kind of mechanical version of Canon's software lens adjustment solution.

 

I know there is more to rangefinder design than meets the eye, but these things will alway slip out of tolerance with hard use. As lenses get faster, and digital has inherently less depth of field than film, Leica constantly adjusting rangefinders must be an expensive business.

[jklotz]

I don't know about all this self adjusting stuff. More power to you if you can make it work, but mine went back to NJ today, along with all my lenses 50 and longer, as I has front focusing issues. It's frustrating. I hope it makes the return trip quickly....

[ArtZ]

Julian (and all others),

 

I've checked my two M8 (which have been adjusted at Solms). In fact, at Customer Service they haven't play with (A) but with © as I have added in the following picture.

 

I can see marks of a screwdriver on screws ( and © in both cameras but screw (A) has no marks at all in any of them. If you take a closer look at screw ©, it has a elliptical shape that allows to adjust the position of the twisted level (the one under the pink arow).

 

Once the technician has ajusted ©, he has seal it with a removable blocking resine (you can also see it in your picture).

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[wlaidlaw]

Manuel,

 

Thanks for showing that. It confirms to me that unless the mal-adjustment is as simple as the infinity roller having moved, it is much better to leave adjustment to be done with with the proper test rig and tools. Otherwise it is like trying to solve an equation with three variables, when you only have two formulas. I assume with the proper test rig, you adjust sequentially, rather than having to hunt backwards and forwards, as each adjustment alters the other two settings.

 

Wilson

[Julian Thompson]

You don't have to leave traces of 'touching' screw A to adjust it - it just unscrews - and I can assure you it will have been adjusted. To reiterate - the length of the arm is adjusted by rotating the cam in screw A. This alters the focus throw and is the hinge pin of the whole setup. You can't set the rangefinder up without it.

 

The eliptical stop at C I have not touched but it determines the end stop for the pivot as the cam goes into the body. This is relevent only where the roller cam lever hits the stop as it goes INTO the camera body. The thin twisted bit of metal under the pink arrow (ie the stop in reverse) that bottoms onto the back of C is just there to hold the roller inside the body when no lens is present and does not perform any adjustment function. C is the least important setting and I can not forsee this ever needing adjustment as I stand right now.

 

As you alter the length of the arm you change the gearing of the mechanism. The side effect is that the infinity roller moves because you've altered the length of the arm. Trimming the infinity roller once you've set the focus throw is very quick and easy. So you don't actually 'hunt' back and forth once you've got a bead on where you're going with it.

 

The bottom line is that it's straightforward to adjust your own rangefinder if you wish. If you can look at an image and make the judgement that 'that's sharp' then you can do it if you want to.

 

The thing is, now I've learned more - I now know for sure that both my new M8.2's, at least one M8 and my new M9 were ALL adjusted incorrectly from the word go - so I adjust my own rangefinder safe in the knowledge that I can't do any worse than that

Edited February 13, 2010 by Julian Thompson

[Olsen]

This photo was taken with a brand new M9 and brand new 90mm cron at f2. I was focussing on the eyes. I would argue that this setup needs calibrating

 

This result is normal! - And correct!

 

Don't forget; at full aparture all cameras/lenses that is in tune will front focus slightly. As this M9/90 mm 2,0 Cron does. This combination produces the same tiny DOF at short distance, just a few cm at 2 meters, as my Noctilux 50 mm 1,0 does.

 

What happens is that all correctly tuned cameras/lenses front focuses slightly (slightly more than a cm - a distance which is very difficult to judge for the human eye at 2 meters distance). When the lens is stopped down, - Cron, Noctilux, Lux, Canon EF - L whatever lens; the DOF moves backwards! - So, if you tune your camera/lens to hit the exact focus point at full aperture, it will be 'off' when stopped down.

 

How is it with other camera systems regarding this?

 

I have a Canon 1Ds III. It has a 'Micro AF adjustment'; a possibility to adjust front/back focusing dependent on lens. Indirectly, this is like admitting that front and back focusing surely is a problem even with D-SLRS. In the film days Canon sold the 50 mm 1,0L which I have an example of. I can assure you all that it is just as tricky to focus as the Leica Noctilux 50 mm 1,0. Defiantly, Canon no longer offer this lens. Canon now offers only the 50 mm 1,2L version - with a DOF with 'several cm larger than Leica's 0,95 - high flyer. As such, the Canon lens is far easier to focus.

 

I would argue that it is impossible for the human eye to focus a Noctilux 1,0 or particularly the 0,95 (or the 90 mm 2,0 Cron etc) - hand held - at two meters distance correctly and in such a fashion that the natural front focusing effect - of slightly less than 2 cm is compensated for. If you can do that you have a far better than average eyesight, and they should have some specialized job for you in the Air Force....

[lct]

...I now know for sure that both my new M8.2's, at least one M8 and my new M9 were ALL adjusted incorrectly from the word go - so I adjust my own rangefinder safe in the knowledge that I can't do any worse than that

Congrats Julian but frankly i cannot understand how bodies that price can simply be delivered to customers misadjusted this way. Instead of asking us what we think of their customer service Leica would rather make a poll about the reliability of their quality control IMHO.

[lct]

...I would argue that it is impossible for the human eye to focus a Noctilux 1,0 or particularly the 0,95 (or the 90 mm 2,0 Cron etc) - hand held - at two meters distance correctly and in such a fashion that the natural front focusing effect - of slightly less than 2 cm is compensated for. If you can do that you have a far better than average eyesight, and they should have some specialized job for you in the Air Force...

Never heard of this "natural front focusing effect" so far. Any litterature about that?

I'm using some rather difficult lenses like 180/2.8, 135/2, let alone 90/2, but i have never noticed such effect with my Canon, Nikon or Leica reflex stuff so far. I may be wrong of course but i'd like to understand how i can be so lucky that i've never met those effects in 30+ years photography.

BTW as far as RFs are concerned, 50/1 or 50/0.95 lenses should not be difficult to focus the same way as 90/2 or 75/1.4 lenses which DoF is much shallower.

[Leicakillen]

Julian - I really just would like to thank you for a most interesting post re rangefinder adjustments - really, really interesting. However I am a little hesitant to start fiddeling with my M9 but I am now sure it can be done in a quality way.

I still though do not understand why there seem to be so many M9s out there that does not seem to be adjusted in the right way in the first place. I am convinced Leica has a process of quality - this is the true essence of their trademark - but here there is a problem.

 

Anyway - thanks Julian.

 

Regards

/Anders

[wlaidlaw]

Julian,

 

What I am not sure about is how you hold the cam A in an exact position, as you re-tighten the locking screw. I assume the vertical slot in the cam is the means of rotating the cam. When you retighten the locking screw, I should think that it would tend to rotate the cam clockwise, thereby effectively lengthening the arm. How did you hold it in place to stop it doing this? If I understand you correctly, the C cam adjustment is purely a stop "buffer" to adjust the position the roller comes to rest when a lens is removed?

 

Wilson

[stunsworth]

Never heard of this "natural front focusing effect" so far. Any litterature about that?

 

I've never heard of it either. It will be interesting to see the sources.

[Julian Thompson]

Wilson - the cam stays perfectly still - you need to actually make a proper effort to rotate it using the end of your screwdriver. It's not 'loose' even when the screw is undone.

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[wlaidlaw]

Wilson - the cam stays perfectly still - you need to actually make a proper effort to rotate it using the end of your screwdriver. It's not 'loose' even when the screw is undone.

 

Julian,

 

I would guess it has a Bellville washer underneath it, to provide friction.

 

Wilson

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